Aggressive or passive
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 12-10-2007, 18:32
Orginal Post: bamboo: How do you roll- with aggression or very passively? Why?
When it comes to the takedown I am very passive. I never take a shot or work for the clinch but rather just let the person come to me, I find offbalancing and throwing quite easy when executed in a passive manner.
When we hit the ground I'm an entirely new person, I work hard for position and fight for the choke or sub. Because I train with alot of wrestlers this sems to be the norm among that group bu tthose with bjj training are always quite passive and wait for a mistake on which to capitalise.
I can see the logic behind this but simply can't bring myself to do it.
-bamboo
Post: zefff:
The way I spar depends on who Im sparring with really but usually I try to be more aggressive, especially against higher ranks. Get position, consolidate position, finish without giving away position!...hopefully :)
I shoot all the time and am always looking for arm drags, ankle picks and reaping throws. When I am being aggressive though I am actually inwardly passive as I need to be sensitive to the situation and openings and the opponents intentions. To much aggression can lose you positions or a hard fought advantage, or you might not even see an opening. The same goes for when I am passive, inwardly I am aggressive and searching for the opening where I can explode my inner aggression.
For me, being aggressive is neccessary as nothing gets done from doing nothing in my book. But being passive is neccessary to be most efficient when on the recieving end of technique and turning around a situation to your favour.>
Post: bamboo:
Very interesting to read of your mind set while sparring Zefff.
I try to keep a cold, blank mindset all the time. Work hard but look what pops up and then pounce on it.>
Post: zefff:
Haha! Thats funny to me because I am far from cold myself. I feint a lot, jump about and make lots of noise. Infact Ive been told I must keep the noise down for our next competition this weekend as the ref may stop the bout thinking I am screaming in pain! ...yes I am that bad. But only because I enjoy the chess of Jiu Jitsu a lot I cannot help but laugh aloud when I roll.>
Post: bamboo:
LOL, it must be treat to grapple with you.
My only noise habit is telling my opponent "nice work" or "well done" when they sweep or are about to set in a sub and I know I'm done for.
Other than that its all business.>
Post: admin:
I am more passive or relaxed, especially when fighting a smaller or less skilled partner. If fighting a real fight, or fighting someone that really annoys me, then I turn it on and use full strength and technique.
What Zeff said I agree with as well, too much aggression or power makes techniques sloppy and out of control. Having control is the key. If you can control your techniques, position, and essentially the fight, then you can dictate how the fight goes.
I have been told to step it up a little bit more against some of the guys I train with. Especially guys who are training for an event. I used to go softer so they could train their techniques on me. Softer meaning less strength and aggression.>
Post: zefff:
What really annoys me is the type of person who is so hyper-competitive or afraid to lose that they will go all out in sparring to get a top position, just after they've asked you to go easy because they have injuries. They use all the dirty tricks like cross faces and neck cranks, get a solid side mount and use all their strength pinning your neck and hips to the canvas for the whole round. What have they learnt from that?>
Post: Wilhelm von Wankenstein:
[quote=zefff;51300 What really annoys me is the type of person who is so hyper-competitive or afraid to lose that they will go all out in sparring to get a top position, just after they've asked you to go easy because they have injuries.[/quote
I don't mind facing intensity from a sparring partner, but I loathe dirty fuckers like that with a passion. If someone wants to go balls to the wall with me, that's all good so long as they make it clear from the start. Playing stupid games like this is crossing the line.>
Post: NeverMan:
Depends if I know the guy.
I never shoot Gi, only no-Gi.
I got some good Judo takedowns during my short time at DZR, so I try and use them but only if it really presents itself (ie. if I can unbalance my opponent easily and get a hook or whatnot). When going no-Gi, I usually wait for the other guy shoot and then I sprawl, unless he is really put his legs out there for me, then I go for it.
On the ground I am aggressive if I am in a dominant position but passive when I am in trouble, holding off a sub and waiting for the person to become impatient and make a mistake so I can gain position. Also, since I am still getting back into shape, when I am in trouble, it's easy to hold off a sub (against my skill level opponent) and catch a breath or two.>
Post: bamboo:
An interesting development concerning my way too aggressive rolling game. My private coach/friend and I were talking after a great session when I asked him what he would do if I were in his school and needed to relax more. He said normally a good beating usually cured the problem but suggested in my case (he's known me since we were children) and instead suggested that for the next few months I only roll starting from a really bad position where aggression will only get me into more trouble.
Wish me luck.....meh..or not.>
Post: zefff:
Thats exactly what I do. I dont fight much from the knees. I'll go ontop if they give it to me but if we start struggling I will just give them the position I want to work from...if we start standing up its a whole other matter though! :)>
Post: Wilhelm von Wankenstein:
bamboo: I'm really in no position to comment from a technical standpoint, but from a pedagoguy point of view, training from bad positions in which aggression gets you into more trouble is a good idea if you find yourself suffering from increased aggression. However, you might want to add an extra dimension of having your partner look out for you and warn you whenever you start struggling with too much aggression and not enough game plan. If necessary, have them tell you to take the time to stall in position and simply feel the breathing - both your own and theirs. Otherwise, if there's no one to stop you the moment you start making mistakes and draw your attention to them, you could wind up reinforcing the erroneous behavioural patterns and send yourself into a spiral. I find that slowing down to feel the breath helps me a lot, but that's just me :mrgreen:
Two cents.>
Post: bamboo:
Great two cents WVW.
Its an "intensity" problem, no problem standing just when it hits the ground. I'm also chaulking it up to the fact that the ground is my noob zone and I'm all tense.>
Post: NeverMan:
I have the problem of "panic" sometimes when I am on the bottom (side control or mount) for too long. I just have the hardest time breathing and I start to freak out when I feel like I can't breath. It definitely effects my game for the worse, I start to just try and be "aggressive" and use strength instead of thinking about what I am doing and looking for escapes/sweeps.
good luck!>
Post: Wilhelm von Wankenstein:
If tension and breathing are issues when fighting from the bottom, there are a couple drills you can try that might help with that. During your warmup, simply have your partner flop on top of you like a sack of potatoes, and then start synching your breathing with his. Partner on top leads, partner below follows. After a minute or so, switch positions so your partner can benefit too. Then, after maybe five or six minutes of this drill, have the top partner start messing with his breathing to see how it makes the bottom partner feel, then switch up again.
From this drill, you can flow into some common positions and again, just hold the position for thirty or so seconds and have both parties feel the breathing before moving on into the next one.
More two cents. Need to lighten my wallet :mrgreen:>
Post: zefff:
Neverman, your situation underneath depends really on what escapes you are being taught and how focused on the details you are. If you feel panic at times you need to really work on that position and under the stress caused by it until you are able to really relax and chill out in it because you know what causes the stress and how to limit or eradicate those causes. When you roll give them the position (side/full mount) straight away every time then work from there on just the one or maybe chain 2 techniques. Do that for whole sessions, day after day!! You need to be relaxed in the worst position while your throat, face, arms etc are being attacked and the best way to get that is to constantly be in that worst position IMHO.
In sparring, when I am pinned tightly (as a noob) I need to keep my mind on the core of the escape technique and what makes it work - rather than a gross explosion of force which is driven more by attributes than skill in technique (save that for competition or real self-defence situations). I focus on the initial movement that allows the second phase in the escape to flow, which gives me a greater chance of success.
So if I am mounted and under pressure; I remember the first thing to do to stop things getting worse, [1 to tuck elbows in to stop the high mount, [2 keep legs flat so he cant get hooks in. [3 When I am ready I bend my prefered leg, [4 bump my body (bridge) with my bent leg and rush two hands to his knee, push down hard (with maybe a lil' tug off the ground), [5 shrimp my hips away with all my might and bring the leg(s) through to recover (half)guard.
That is how I break down a simple escape. Can you see how if I didnt stop to think and execute step 1, I might encounter a problem later in step 4 as I waste loads of energy on a bridge that doesnt work well because his bodyweight isnt over my hips? When you waste vital energy and get nowhere or put your self in a worse situation than before is the road to panic.
peace>
Post: NeverMan:
Yes, I was just sharing my experience and what I am trying to work through right now. :)>
Post: zefff:
true...I guess we are all on the same road.>
Post: bamboo:
My update:
I've been starting in bad positions and more importantly, I've rolled with me wife a few times this week. Grappling with her means I have to go softer and slower and use only clean technique.
It has made all the difference in the world in just one week. I pictured the guys a the dojo last night as my wife and rolled accordingly. Relaxed and not hurrying anything I took the passive role. I can't believe the difference!
Anyway, I'm keeping up the "start from a bad place" and rolling with the wife as it seems to have been a breakthrough experience for me.
Great stuff, can't wait to roll in the grove tonight then full contact on saturday at the club. mmmm...groundnpound..>
Post: zefff:
Whatever floats your boat...Dunno bout you but when I roll with my wife I only use dirty techniques! :mrgreen:>
Post: bamboo:
I was waiting for that Zefff. How did I know?...>
Post: Wilhelm von Wankenstein:
Best not to use those with the boys on saturday night :mrgreen:>
Post: zefff:
Quoting: bamboo;51375 I was waiting for that Zefff. How did I know?...
Because we all use the same old "I need to work on my clean technique" line! :lol:>
Post: bamboo:
LMAO! My wife reads these too!>
Post: Wilhelm von Wankenstein:
Oilcheck guard pass, anyone? :twisted:>
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