kesa gatame
Original Poster: opariser1001
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 16-02-2007, 04:50
Orginal Post: opariser1001: do you guys prefer standard kesa or kuzuri kesa?
standard
or
kuzure
i'm more of a kuzure man myself. seem like you get rolled much less often in kuzure. just wondering to what success you guys have used each. i know that each has their own advantages and whatnot but i was just wondering your thoughts on each position.
edit: not sure why the pics aren't working....
Post: bamboo:
I usd to love both, now that my training counterparts outweigh me by anywhere between 20 - 90lbs- I like either full mount or the back.
-bamboo>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
I prefer Kuzure, Kesa is too easy to be rolled, or get your back taken>
Post: samurai6string:
I prefer standard Kesa, which btw Op, is the same finish you end up in after performing what is usually called a "cowboy" in wrestling. I have to disagree with BP, this is a very strong hold and safe position if you understand how to ride it properly. At only 152 lbs, I could maintain a pin without fear of a re-roll on a heavy weight (220-270), very strong if you understand how to sink your weight and raise your hips.>
Post: samurai6string:
this guy is riding it a little "high" but you get the point.
Hips are elevated, legs are up with the heels and edge of foot supporting so that all weight is on the opponent.>
Post: opariser1001:
nice pic samurai yeah there's just something about that feeling when you have your opponent in a tight kesa and you know you have all your weight on their chest hehe. and yeah though i primarily use kuzure kesa, i have experimented with standard and had some success if I focus a lot on technique and keeping uber-tight on them. though when you're going against a 300-lb guy(the likes of which we have in our dojo) it's hard to keep any kesa at all!>
Post: zefff:
Hmm, I am too much of a noob to try messing with things I dont fully understand yet but I get good results with Kuzure. I like having control of the torso and like Panta, I see a big risk of giving the back up from Kesa. Its always fun to do the old 'trap the arm with the legs' from Kuzure.>
Post: bamboo:
6string-
I wish I could better control the bigger guy from kesa but that will come with practice. I can get a much cleaner strike off if I'm on top anyway. :wink:
Practice Practice Practice>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
If the guy on the bottom manages to trap your leg close to him, he can get himself under you moreso and either roll you or get your back. I used to like Kesa, but not as a position to stay in. I use it more like a transition, to either achieve a highter side mount, or north south. I really now see it as a way to isolate the arm, not as a controlling position.
6string, I've rolled and gained the back on many a guy heavier than me. I'm 155lbs, and have done this to guys 190 and up.>
Post: bamboo:
Man Panta, when you come up next week I am so going to enjoy watching you own the big guys I practice with! I can tool them standing but I suck on the ground (as you know) so then thier strength and size really factor in.
I agree with panta, I think kesa is a great transition tool that I try and use after a quick takedown.
bamboo>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=bamboo Man Panta, when you come up next week I am so going to enjoy watching you own the big guys I practice with! I can tool them standing but I suck on the ground (as you know) so then thier strength and size really factor in.
bamboo[/quote
Yeah rite, I know about the shaved albino gorilla you have hiding in your basement waiting for me. Oh and your buddy who drywalls. :lol:>
Post: bamboo:
you'll be fine. :wink:
We keep bananas for the gorilla.>
Post: samurai6string:
lol @ you crazy Canadians. :D
Panta> yeah, if you let someone under you get that leg, it's over. That's one of the reasons I posted the wrestling pic. You have to keep up on your heels instead of laying down the legs so that you can move them towards the head in case he tries to trap with his legs, or to move your weight out and away (get "low") if he tries to use the free arm to grab your elbow and roll/shrug out. I guess that might be a tall order for someone who doesn't use the position alot, but it is a very common pinning hold in wrestling, so it is more or less second nature to ride there for me. I could see how some might not like the position.
*edit* One other thing (promise, last one :lol: ) Panta, when you mention being able to roll/get the back of someone heavier than you when they are riding a kesa, that is most likely due to that person riding with their weight too "high," or having lazy legs (not knocking your skill of course :P, but then if you recognize when this happens, you can roll even more of those heavies :!: )>
Post: bamboo:
going to try wrestling style friday, cheers 6string.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
6string, If you do any position correct then it'll be difficult for your opponent. Even in Kuzure, if you're riding high you run the risk of being reverse triangled. In a dynamic situation, it's a different story. A full resisting opponent will make it very difficult to get proper position.
I guess it's the bjj side of me, most bjj guys hate Kesa. You also dont really need to be riding high on kesa to get swept/rolled or your back taken. You're looking at it from a wrestlers POV.....on top, I look at it from a bjj POV from the bottom. Bottom line it's not a bad position, just not one prefered by me and some others. If you're comfortable using it, and you can thrive then go with it. Martial arts is not really about what works, but what works for you.>
Post: samurai6string:
True enough. :wink:>
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