Non tappers
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 05-10-2007, 01:48
Orginal Post: bamboo: I just don't get the guys that refuse to tap when rolling.
Thursday I was rolling at the club and it was business as usual. At one point I rolled with a guy that was a little bulky in the torso, In an effort to stay mounted I grapevined him and then worked to sink in a key lock. WHen I got it and began to let go of the pressure he says -
"not yet", I put it back on and then just let go, this was silly.
Move ahead to saturday and hes not there, his buddy tells me he seperated his shoulder or something when we rolled. I was shocked.
Turns out this guy has a huge list of past injuries including a broken leg from rolling.
What the hell? You'd think surgery and broken bones would put a persons' pride in check.
Post: zefff:
Hahaha! and I WAS going to say, just let him carry on - its all part of the learning process...maybe not! :lol:
We dont really get many of these unless its maybe a guypassing through or a fresh blue or purple gets caught and is desperate to keep from being tapped by a lower rank. Best thing I find is to stop fighting for the sub and quickly move to another position to attack somewhere else. As long as you know you got it, just move on without having to start again and waste half a round while he nurses his sore arm. When people fight armlocks I like to switch position to maybe side mount and attack the collar for chokes then if I dont get anything, then go back to the arms when they give me something to work with.
peace>
Post: bamboo:
Good advice about moving on to another position.
Funny thing, the instructor on saturday mentioned the "incident" and implored everyone to tap early and often (as it should be), especially when facing and I quote "people with more proactive game".>
Post: zefff:
Go and brush your shoulders off player! :lol:>
Post: bamboo:
Sigh... I only wish I understood Zefff.
So, I'm going to try and relax abit next class, less impose my weight and GnP and more gaurd work.>
Post: NeverMan:
[FONT=Tahoma Two things regarding this:[/FONT
[FONT=Tahoma
[FONT=Tahoma Pride. That's why people don't tap when they should, it's pathetic. I'm not going to become a super BJJist or UFC MMAer, so for me tapping is not a big deal if I get caught in a sub, I tap and learn and move on.[/FONT
[FONT=Tahoma Other thing: ANNOYING people that give up the sub too early thinking they are going to hurt me. That makes me mad because it doesn't allow me the opportunity to slip the sub, particularly people who put on an armbar that isn't all that tight and then let go acting as if they caught you, when they haven't. It doesn't give me a chance to work my armbar (or other sub) defense and that's annoying.[/FONT
[/FONT >
Post: zefff:
Yes but on the flipside couldnt I say - if your arm is stretched out and you have a leg over your face then you have already made the mistake of getting into the worst postion and the defence you need to work most on is not the last line of defence so to speak (rotating out of the armbar or tugging your elbow out or whatever), but rather the positional defence that denys your opponent the opportunity to isolate your arm and create the technique? ...I know you really want both though :)
Im just saying if your opponent wants to give up a sub attempt thats his business IMHO, and I think you should still work the escape while he is relaxing rather than stopping to discuss what happened or whatever. When he feels you escaping Im sure his reflex will be to quickly try to catch you again and you will both just flow to another technique and keep rolling.
After the round is when you can debate wether or not you got caught...but he didnt tap you did he? ;)
peace.
P.S. Sorry if I am talking out of turn regarding my white belt status. I dont know your rank or experience but this is just what I think bro.>
Post: bamboo:
If your partner is releasing too quickly perhaps you guys need to slow down and so both of you can feel whats going on?
I know if I manage to get someone once its in its in, not because I'm good but because the setup has to right and the arm really tight and secure before teh "execution" of the technique takes place. We go slow and honestly so although escapes happen, they are seldom since the sub is never attempted unless the position is completely secure.
Zefff- As far as white belt goes- meh, I appreciate your input, we have no belts where I am so your partner helps if they can.>
Post: NeverMan:
I see your points.
But why not work BOTH defenses?
Face it, you are going to roll with people who have bad armbars or who go for the armbar even when not in position, so why practice a technique?
You can practice your other defense BEFORE he puts the armbar on and practice the escape AFTER/DURING he puts the armbar on. JMO.
Belts pretty much mean diddly poo IMO.
I guess I just think both people should roll until you tap.
As far as "going slow", that is what drilling is for, IMO. When you drill you go slow to get the technique down right, when you are rolling it's more for live resistance and practice of technique. I will say that I certainly don't go as hard when rolling at the gym with training partners out of respect for my training partner. Also, I try and use the least amount of muscle possible when rolling for practice to help my technique.>
Post: zefff:
You are right bro thats why I said "...I know you really want both [escape and defence though :)"
But the way I see it is defence is superior to escape so I would rather have that down even though its not as flash.
edit: so what arts are you practicing nowadays Neverman?>
Post: NeverMan:
Been doing BJJ (since I moved I couldn't find a DZR place) since July.
To say something about the "roll slowly", we do drilling but we also do "flowing", meaning we do slow roll, no submission just position. We also roll live, obviously, from different positions depending on what we are working that week.
You're right, the defense is more important than the escape, but if you already got into the position, why not?
All in all, I agree no tappers are annoying. That's just too much ego. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with that yet.>
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