to tap or not to tap
Original Poster: Sparky-bjj
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 23-12-2006, 02:42
Orginal Post: Sparky-bjj: Many grapplers and mma fighters refuse to tap when they're caught in a submission. They'd rather go to sleep or get their limbs broken than getting tapped out. How do you guys think about this? Is tapping out for the weak? I for one can understand why someone refuses to tap out because he's too proud. But I find it a tad stupid sometimes...
When I find myself in a situation where I've put myself in a submission because I made a fault, they'd have to crank it really hard to make me tap. But I would still tap rather than have something snapped. And this is not because I 'can't stand the pain' but simply because submissions are meant to destroy things, when you don't tap they destroy something and then you're stuck with an injury wich is going to keep you from training hard for a long time and in some cases, like for example the knee, you'll get stuck with them for the rest of your life.
Offcourse going to sleep really doesn't do much damage, but is it really noble to get choked out? I mean if you're caught in a tight rear naked choke, you've already lost, they're is no way you're gonna win, so why is it supposedly brave to go to sleep and not tap out?
I understand values like pride, honor and courage. But is it courageous to not tap out?
Post: bamboo:
Tap and tap often.
If you get caught, tap and learn from it. Its rather hard to train if your arm is broken.
-bamboo>
Post: setsu nin to:
Of course tap. If you dont tap you are more stupid not more brave.>
Post: Bushi:
Tapping was first used as a training tool to let your opponent know that he/she performed the move correctly. It signified a kill. I tap to anyone that catches me. Anyone. I have a philosophy I share with all my students and they have reaped tons from it.
"You have to get tapped 1000 times before you become any good at this art, so you have 999 more to go."
Those that do not tap do so because they view it as a sign of wealkness, well I do not see it as that. I see it in the same light as a "pat on the back" or a "congratulations."
Ego is the biggest obsticle to training, in my opinion.
Tap or do not tap, it's your life, but remember, some things do not heal back 100%, especially as you get older.>
Post: samurai6string:
No doubt. I agree with everyone else. However, if someone is attempting a choke, or armbar or anything else and it is loose and sloppy, I'm going to try and escape. If you tap too early, or when you could have gotten out of an improper hold you are doing a disservice to your partner. If it's tight and you're stuck, then by all means tap.>
Post: Bushi:
[quote=samurai6string No doubt. I agree with everyone else. However, if someone is attempting a choke, or armbar or anything else and it is loose and sloppy, I'm going to try and escape. If you tap too early, or when you could have gotten out of an improper hold you are doing a disservice to your partner. If it's tight and you're stuck, then by all means tap.[/quote
No brainer. If there is no reason to tap, then why tap? I do not think that is what they are talking about.>
Post: zefff:
Not tapping when you are in a class and supposed to be learning has got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard!
To think like that is really unhealthy when you are supposed to be working with your partners so that you both become better.
It has nothing to do with courage, it is pure ego. If you use your head you will see that non-tapping is futile because it doesnt rectify the error that put you in position for the technique. IMHO tapping acknowledges your defeat but the defeat isnt in the submission itself. It is in the position you gave up prior to allow the submission.
So not-tapping is not a commendable act because of this single reason really - You train to learn and develop technique: By tapping you can quickly end the bout so that analysis, comment and exchange can occur yes? If that is correct then not tapping only hinders the learning process as you waste time doing other things besides what you intended when you put on your gi!
Peace>
Post: samurai6string:
[quote=Bushi [quote=samurai6string No doubt. I agree with everyone else. However, if someone is attempting a choke, or armbar or anything else and it is loose and sloppy, I'm going to try and escape. If you tap too early, or when you could have gotten out of an improper hold you are doing a disservice to your partner. If it's tight and you're stuck, then by all means tap.[/quote
No brainer. If there is no reason to tap, then why tap? I do not think that is what they are talking about.[/quote
Gotcha, I've just rolled with people before who will do this. As soon as you get position and start to lock in a choke they will tap. Almost like they just concede the point and want to start over...>
Post: Bushi:
[quote=samurai6string [quote=Bushi [quote=samurai6string No doubt. I agree with everyone else. However, if someone is attempting a choke, or armbar or anything else and it is loose and sloppy, I'm going to try and escape. If you tap too early, or when you could have gotten out of an improper hold you are doing a disservice to your partner. If it's tight and you're stuck, then by all means tap.[/quote
No brainer. If there is no reason to tap, then why tap? I do not think that is what they are talking about.[/quote
Gotcha, I've just rolled with people before who will do this. As soon as you get position and start to lock in a choke they will tap. Almost like they just concede the point and want to start over...[/quote
Yeah, I've run into those people as well. Eventually they get more confident with the position and try to escape.>
Post: samurai6string:
[quote=Bushi
Eventually they get more confident with the position and try to escape.[/quote
Ya know, I hadn't even thought of it that way before. I just thought they were being dicks. :lol:>
Post: titoliddell:
Its all about pride man. If you are a striker and your hand is broke would you stop.>
Post: bamboo:
Yes.
Pride need not equal stupidity.
-bamboo>
Post: titoliddell:
I don't think you got what I ment. Of coarse you should tap,but if you think you can escape then try.>
Post: bamboo:
That of course is the general way that tapping goes. If you can't escape, if the next step is to have limb broken or be rendered limp, then you tap.
Your statement did not imply that.
-bamboo>
Post: titoliddell:
well thats what I was implying>
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