Post: zefff:

did u use the search function up top there?>

Post: Tease T Tickle:

this topic is so old and so underappreciated that it may deserve a rehashing.

But, because I get bored with rehashing old things, I'll keep it to the nitty gritty.

The best way to train to cope with the adrenaline dump of stressful situations is to 1) train only with techniques that rely on "gross motor skills" and 2) train under stress-inducing conditions: unannounced assaults, verbal abuse, the sound of gunfire, multiple opponents, etc.>

Post: zefff:

So do you have a 'sound of gunfire' CD you pop in every now and then? :lol:

(...Im laughing but thats actually a good idea when I stop to think about it.)>

Post: samurai6string:

pshh...."Sound of Gunfire" is the 6th setting on most of those ambient noise machines you find in hotel rooms.>

Post: Tease T Tickle:

[quote=zefff So do you have a 'sound of gunfire' CD you pop in every now and then? :lol:

(...Im laughing but thats actually a good idea when I stop to think about it.)[/quote 

I remember being shown a video of a SEAL training camp, and the drill instructors were spraying the guys with water hoses, firing off assault rifles, setting off explosives and all sorts of nonsense even while the trainees were doing basic stuff like pushups.

As for the CD, isn't that most rap records?>

Post: SAINT:

Quoting: Tease T Tickle;46964 The best way to train to cope with the adrenaline dump of stressful situations is to 1) train only with techniques that rely on "gross motor skills" and 2) train under stress-inducing conditions: unannounced assaults, verbal abuse, the sound of gunfire, multiple opponents, etc.Very true. especially #1. training for finesse wont help you in the real deal. the brains cognitive abilities change drastically like you had a tab of acid. distortion of time, space, & thoughts, make fancy (fine motor) skills very hard and sometimes impossible to perform effectively.

basic, direct and simple works best.

the brain shuts down what it deems not worthy for the fight or flight sense. it filters out the abilities that require too much processing power and goes for easy to perform functions.

so while you may have nice trophys, you need to have a separate training mindset that deals with the simple, yet brutally efficient moves, that can be reproduced under high stress. tournaments may be stressful, but the safety of it wont prepare you for the stress of the unknown.>

Post: samurai6string:

Hrmmm. I never thought about training on acid...... How about rolling on mushrooms? lol Seriously though, excelent point about stress reaction.>

Post: NeverMan:

[quote=SAINT;47944 Very true. especially #1. training for finesse wont help you in the real deal. the brains cognitive abilities change drastically like you had a tab of acid. distortion of time, space, & thoughts, make fancy (fine motor) skills very hard and sometimes impossible to perform effectively.

basic, direct and simple works best.

the brain shuts down what it deems not worthy for the fight or flight sense. it filters out the abilities that require too much processing power and goes for easy to perform functions.

so while you may have nice trophys, you need to have a separate training mindset that deals with the simple, yet brutally efficient moves, that can be reproduced under high stress. tournaments may be stressful, but the safety of it wont prepare you for the stress of the unknown.[/quote 

So do you think that when training for sport (which leaves out a lot of little but harmful techniques) that you should not forget the easiest things: nose attacks, throat attacks, ear grabs/pulls, finger breaks, thumb breaks, etc.? Just curious.>

Post: Triple T:

Never, I think we're referring more to specific body mechanics rather than targets. Anything can be a nose attack when it hits the nose, you know? However, for the stressful fights, you should use your basic tools like a roundhouse kick rather than a double-backspinning butterfly kick.

However, for sports like MMA and even sub grappling, you should train with "nose attacks" and "ear grabs/pulls" especially because breaking your opponent's nose in a full-contact sport fight can win you the match and ear grabs or finger manipulations out of the view of the ref can make the difference between being pounded and scoring a kimura.>

Post: lakan_sampu:

what are "gross motor skills"?>

Post: bamboo:

Large muscle movement as oppossed to fine motor skills.>

Post: Triple T:

Part of the theory regarding the "adrenal dump" and combat stress is that the psychological impact of being in a real fights limits your ability to perform complex or precise body mechanics. On the other hand, studies suggest that repeated training makes complex and precise body mechanics so easy to do very little cognitive function is actually required. Some highly experience piano players, for example, move their fingers as if on the piano during sleep. So, in theory, if you trained the highly technical martial arts moves enough, they would be so easy to pull off that combat stress would not apply to their performance. This, however, is mostly conjecture and mostly untestable. I tend to keep thing simple for my own practice for other reasons than combat stress, so this issue is purely academic to me.>

Post: Gazelle:

[quote=Triple T;49197 Never, I think we're referring more to specific body mechanics rather than targets. Anything can be a nose attack when it hits the nose, you know? However, for the stressful fights, you should use your basic tools like a roundhouse kick rather than a double-backspinning butterfly kick.

However, for sports like MMA and even sub grappling, you should train with "nose attacks" and "ear grabs/pulls" especially because breaking your opponent's nose in a full-contact sport fight can win you the match and ear grabs or finger manipulations out of the view of the ref can make the difference between being pounded and scoring a kimura.[/quote 

*cringes* If i ever express an interest in fighting MMA, please, send me link to this post (i would say batter me with a stick too, but that could be a tiny bit too much of a dangerous request with you guys:) ). I mean, come on....break someone's nose for a 'title'...sorry guys, just doesn't seem worth it...nor does the brain damage you could get from the hits to the head (alright, might say it part serves you right for not blocking the things, but still...).>

Post: bamboo:

Quote:

nor does the brain damage you could get from the hits to the head (alright, might say it part serves you right for not blocking the things, but still...).

Can you show me one documented case as a result of an mma match?

Gazelle- The thing is most of us on this board have broken something due to training, its par for the course when you train with any sort of realism and resistance. Point sparring is fun but its just a game of "tag" and assumptions in the end. Accidents happen.
ex- I took a knee to the head last friday night in when my partner resisted a throw, result was an abrased eye lid and nothing else. Had it been point sparring it would have been assumed that it was a knockout. By taking it further we can find truth in what we are doing.>

Post: Triple T:

There doesn't need to be documentation from MMA fights specifically. A knockout is a knockout and the cause doesn't really matter. The closed head trauma of a single, hard strike can result in anything from needed a drool bib to dying. The repeated, minor abuse of taking a lot of punches or falls or whatever can have similar, if less dramatic, effects. Examine Muhammed Ali. It is firmly believed by experts that had he not been a boxer, he would not have had his Parkinson's appear so early in his life. Various boxers and kickboxers have serious physical ailments in their later careers, but not later lives, as a result of the abuse their body takes. MMA is so new that we haven't seen it yet, but believe that it will happen eventually.>

Post: bamboo:

Well said, we'll pick this up in 10 years. 8)>

Post: NeverMan:

[quote=Triple T;49197 Never, I think we're referring more to specific body mechanics rather than targets. Anything can be a nose attack when it hits the nose, you know? However, for the stressful fights, you should use your basic tools like a roundhouse kick rather than a double-backspinning butterfly kick.

However, for sports like MMA and even sub grappling, you should train with "nose attacks" and "ear grabs/pulls" especially because breaking your opponent's nose in a full-contact sport fight can win you the match and ear grabs or finger manipulations out of the view of the ref can make the difference between being pounded and scoring a kimura.[/quote 

So when you train a technique or target or whatever do you find yourself getting disqualified when it is not allowed in the sport? I guess that is my question.

Part of training is getting good muscle memory and if you train certain responses that are illegal in sport, do you find yourself using them in sport anyways? Does it take you a second to realize that you shouldn't use that? That could waste valuable time.>

Post: Triple T:

Sort of. First, I don't train directly for sport applications. Second, I train primarily from a body mechanics perspective so that target selection is "improvised," so if in competitions I simply put my techniques in legal areas. Third, there are precious few illegal techniques in the competitions I have been in. Although, that's a chapter of my life I'd rather not relive.>