Chokes from Guard,Mount any postion in a real fight
Original Poster: GrappleToWin
Forum: Hand to Hand Combat
Posted On: 30-04-2006, 15:33
Orginal Post: GrappleToWin: More often then not in a real fight the fight goes to the ground. The person who is more comfortable on the ground is more likely to win, because either they have a wrestling, BJJ or any type of experiance with "tumbling". What im getting at is if their more adapted to striking on the ground what can the average person do to end the fight in their favor... From on your back you cant put trmendous power into your punches so why not try a choke.... Ive used a Guillotine Choke from guard in a real fight or 2 and just messing around with friends who dont know BJJ. The point is a choke is a very useful and quick fight stopper. If you've got you opponent in guard or shoot even if theyve mounted you but u can get a guillotine choke in deep the average fighter(meaning none trained) isnt going to no how to get out of it... From mount lol if you have a belt of u can do a ninja choke or a shaloin choke but we wont get into that....
Any one else got anymore choke variations that would work in a real fight? nothing complex just stuff that the average person looking for info could do with out any training and still have it be effective..
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=GrappleToWin More often then not in a real fight the fight goes to the ground. The person who is more comfortable on the ground is more likely to win, because either they have a wrestling, BJJ or any type of experiance with "tumbling". What im getting at is if their more adapted to striking on the ground what can the average person do to end the fight in their favor... From on your back you cant put trmendous power into your punches so why not try a choke.... Ive used a Guillotine Choke from guard in a real fight or 2 and just messing around with friends who dont know BJJ. The point is a choke is a very useful and quick fight stopper. If you've got you opponent in guard or shoot even if theyve mounted you but u can get a guillotine choke in deep the average fighter(meaning none trained) isnt going to no how to get out of it... From mount lol if you have a belt of u can do a ninja choke or a shaloin choke but we wont get into that....
Any one else got anymore choke variations that would work in a real fight? nothing complex just stuff that the average person looking for info could do with out any training and still have it be effective..[/quote
In a real fight are you going to choke the person unconcious, to death or to tap. If it's to tap, then it's not a real fight, if it's to unconciousness, then you may be there for too long, depending on how well you have the choke applied and to death, you face charges yourself.
Again with the "to the death", you can turn a choke into a crank, that can cause serious damage, up to and including breaking the neck. Are you including those aswell?>
Post: GrappleToWin:
never thought of the crank but dude if u get a good choke in and saying its 1 on 1 not 1 on 2 or anything u can put someone out quick with a choke>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: More often then not in a real fight the fight goes to the ground
Can anyone please give me real stats on this?
School yard retardedness aside, if your not a cop that needs to subdue someone then its one guy gets a good shot in then kicks the living shit of the guy that went down. Thats a fight.
If you can choke him out then do it, just be aware of the legal implications of knowing a martial art and using it then having the resulting effect go "too far". :wink:
Panta- Why does it have to be "to the death"? I've been in fights and none of them resulted in the death of anyone.
Just my opinion.
-bamboo>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote="bamboo"
Quote: Panta- Why does it have to be "to the death"? I've been in fights and none of them resulted in the death of anyone.
umm I didn't say it HAD to be to the death. did I? I know you're trying to be fair to everyone.>
Post: samurai6string:
Bamboo, you can box my ears for this later :) , I have forgotten the Japaneese for this term but one of the "waza" that we learned in Kodenkan/Danzan Ryu dealt with reviving after a choke. I don't know if BJJ goes into that, or perhaps some schools do.
Another thing to consider if you are going to choke someone out in a real fight is the adrenaline dump that person is going to get as soon as the blood/oxygen stops going to their brain. If you have never taken someone to the point of making them go unconscious, you will be surprised just how much the human body will fight in order to prevent that from happening. I'm not ruling out chokes, I'm a big fan of them myself, for control reasons, but taking someone all the way out is much different than making someone tap out.>
Post: samurai6string:
Sorry, can't leave this one alone. Another point: you should consider the dangers involved with the actual mechanics of a choke. (ie vascular vs. trachea) and the amount of pressure used (are you closing the airway or crushing the trachea?)>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=samurai6string Sorry, can't leave this one alone. Another point: you should consider the dangers involved with the actual mechanics of a choke. (ie vascular vs. trachea) and the amount of pressure used (are you closing the airway or crushing the trachea?)[/quote
this is what I was getting at....not in such a technical way, but a choke, well a crank can do a lot of bad damage. Also honestly, i find that choking someone would be a waste of energy/resource. In a SD situation, you would really want to end an altercation quickly. So if someone pulls guard on you, you grab the biggest stick or rock you could find and knock the mofo out. :twisted:>
Post: bamboo:
Emergency care of shime waza
http://www.judoinfo.com/chokes4.htm
chokes in general
http://www.judoinfo.com/chokes1.htm
A choke will end a fight in seconds, likely faster than a rock. If you train properly in them and the oppurtunity lends itself then take it, if you don't then don't, its as simple as that. If you can't choke a guy out in less than 6-7 seconds then you don't have it sunk in and should change tactics.
If they are teaching chokes, I am sure they know how to revive them or thier insurance would be useless. Every GOOD bjjer i have spoken with that trains in chokes trains in revival, its just responsible. If your teacher doesn't, question him/her and if they don't know how, leave immediately.
-bamboo>
Post: samurai6string:
good point :lol: maybe what I'm trying to say is 6-7 seconds can seem a lot longer if you are fighting off someone who thinks this could be it, raher than someone who knows they can tap and you'll let go. 8O>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=bamboo If they are teaching chokes, I am sure they know how to revive them or thier insurance would be useless. Every GOOD bjjer i have spoken with that trains in chokes trains in revival, its just responsible. If your teacher doesn't, question him/her and if they don't know how, leave immediately.
-bamboo[/quote
was this directed to me? I'll assume it was, seeing that you know I train in BJJ and 6string doesn't. YES we train in chokes (gi and no gi) and cranks. YES my instructor knows how to revive, although i've never seen him do so, cuz we don't train with dumbassess who don't let go when there's a tap and, we take as much care as we can with our training partners.
Chokes can put someone out, but what I was getting at, and it surprises me you didn't pick up on it. Applying a choke takes too much time, resourses and energy. To manouver into a position to get a choke will take more than 6-7 seconds, unless ofcourse, you're the greatest martial artist that ever lived. I'm sure that while someone is trying to apply a gullotine choke on me while I'm in their guard, i can buy enough time to bash his head in with a rock, thus making him let go of the choke and possibly makeing sure he wont get up. (not that was just a senerio, if you wish to discect(sp?) go ahead) again I understand if you don't get my point, cuz once again I will remind I'm at work so i have to be extremely brief.>
Post: bamboo:
Actually panta it was in regards to the question asked by 6string, i forgot you did BJJ all together. I've always regarded you as a kung fu man that did bjj to improve his ground skills, guess its changed, my mistake.
Quote: To manouver into a position to get a choke will take more than 6-7 seconds, unless ofcourse, you're the greatest martial artist that ever lived.
Youve taken it out of context, the actual choke will take at maximum 6-7 seconds, I wrote:
Quote: the oppurtunity lends itself then take it, if you don't then don't, its as simple as that. If you can't choke a guy out in less than 6-7 seconds then you don't have it sunk in and should change tactics
No need for sarcasm my friend. How long does it take to pick up that rock and hope he dosent get it first? If both hands are occupied in a struggle, when will you be free to grab said rock? I just walked out to the back yard and front yard and side walk, guess what no big rocks, in fact nothing big and blunt at all, but then thats not the point, it was just a scenerio. No lava, no glass, just two guys in fight. Choke presents itself, take it, a big rock is lying on the ground and your free to spot it, grab it, wind up and hit him, fine do that. why am I always in your guard? What makes you think the fight will automatically end up in a bjj scenerio?
If you can armbar, strike, hit whatever, then you can choke, and you don't have to be the "greatest martial artist that ever lived".
-lord bamboo master of all and the greatest martial artist that ever lived- biaiaiaiatch! :lol:>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
bamboo,
I apologize if I'd given the impression (wich I'm sure i did, but certainly didn't mean it), that the greatest martial artist ever statement was directed at you.
I really do apologize man.
Really I know that I am indeed the greates martial artist ever :wink: :D>
Post: Tapout95:
[quote=GrappleToWin Any one else got anymore choke variations that would work in a real fight? nothing complex just stuff that the average person looking for info could do with out any training and still have it be effective..[/quote
I think a very effective maneuver that will may not be a choke, but to just punch them in the throat. I find that will get me gasping for air and its easier and safer then going for a choke. Thats what I would do in most situations.>
Post: zefff:
In my very humble opinion I always found (standing and mount) its actually quite hard to conventionally punch someone in the throat (especially when they know to tuck their jaw in) even if they have it exposed its a target not much bigger than the fist and has an acutely curved surface. For some reason it becomes a lot easier to hit though with a Ginger or Pheonix fist or chopping with the blade of the hand which all are smaller weapons than a conventional fist. You could also strike with the fingertips and follow it up with a Clavical grab if you are a prodigy like me! 8) :roll: They have a smaller surface area, dont need a big chamber action and are more versatile but you run the risk of possibly breaking them and also being seen to be ridden with the disease known as CMA. :roll: :)
On a side note: If I applied a choke with my hair in a BJJ match, would that be legal?>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: On a side note: If I applied a choke with my hair in a BJJ match, would that be legal
I would pay good money to see that innovation in action!>
Post: GrappleToWin:
lol you guys get so into this damn u should write books about scenarios lol id buy them all..... i was just wondering if anyone had any diffrent choke varietions and what ever happened to cutting off the blood flow through the corted artery? that puts a person out fast as hell and its effective.... and how does this take long the attacker throws a right hook i drop low get behind them jump on their back and get in a nice deep rear naked choke and bam their done(obviously it would b in a fast fluid motion lol not in stages) but jesus ur a dirty bastard lol ur tlakin about taking a choke to far how would it sound to the cop i got in a fight found a brick on the ground and beat the guys head in with it lol>
Post: samurai6string:
well, it would sound perfectly fine if say, that guy just tried to mug you and you were in fear for your life.>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: i was just wondering if anyone had any diffrent choke varietions and what ever happened to cutting off the blood flow through the corted artery
A blood choke or cutting off the corotid artery is quite frankly the only way I like to do it. Strangling someone is just not up my alley, I find that rather grotesque.
-bamboo>
Post: zefff:
For me its definitely more frightening being asphixiated. Blood chokes seem to feel a tiny bit more like going to sleep rather than being snuffed out.
G2W, you would probably like to read Tease's book, or maybe Bushi with him being a LEO.>
Post: Tapout95:
What about a knee on the throat pushing your weight down? I personally have never tried this, and so i was wondering what you all thought about it. I personally would think this would work pretty well, and would allow you to get out and away if need be. Just an idea.>
Post: GrappleToWin:
hell ya its more frightening to feel like ur choking to death lol but still its better to cut off the blood flow its quicker u cant hold ur blood lol u can hold ur breath......>
Post: samurai6string:
To me a carotid choke always made me feel like I was going to throw up. Don't know why. Either one is not a pleasant sensation.
Tapout> I think that is reffered to as a "dragon" choke? (someone correct me) but you would do it in a situation where, say, you had taken someone to the ground with a wrist lock (from a te nage etc.), or shoulder lock, then place the front part of your shin (the blade) against the side of their neck (on the carotid) and put your weight on it while maintaining the lock you already had.>
Post: zefff:
Yeah blood chokes all the way but choking with the stick is awesome too. Really bites! :twisted:>
Post: GrappleToWin:
lol ya that would b pretty rough :lol:>
| < Prev | Next > |
|---|