MS-13
Original Poster: V-for-Vendetta
Forum: Hand to Hand Combat
Posted On: 16-08-2007, 17:44
Orginal Post: V-for-Vendetta: Has anyone heard of the gang the MS-13? The news did a special on them maybe a month ago. Anyway, I live in New Jersey, and more and more prevalent are their symbols on everyday items like sidewalks, traffic signs, buildings.
I'm considering adding KM to my training, which now is pretty much boxing and wrestling. I'm also considering knife and stick fighting as well. These guys are spreading like wildfire, and local townspeople are fast becomming shook. I live in a high gang-plagued area, and another one really isn't what I need.
Any opinions on what they would add or subtract about their training if you were in my situation?
Post: angryrocker4:
A concealed weapons permit and a magnum handgun with hollow points. Permanent solution.>
Post: bamboo:
If I was living in a gang infested area and was seriously worried for my well being, I would move.
You can have all the training in the world, it still won't stop a bullet.>
Post: Stazzy:
[quote=angryrocker4 A concealed weapons permit and a magnum handgun with hollow points. Permanent solution.[/quote
You should probably refrain from giving advice...ever. Killing one gang member is in no way a "permanent solution".>
Post: nbotary:
I'm gonna offer you two solutions to your problem. The first is the most obvious and probably safest - MOVE. The second is somewhat safe, yet probably the riskiest - become friends with some of them. You may think this is stupid or crazy, but I say this from experience.
When I was a sophomore in high school, I moved to a school that was heavily populated with Crips gang members. On my second day of class, I found out that the guy sitting next to me at my table, Exxon Brown, was one of the leaders of the biggest Crips gangs in Tulsa, OK. I made the choice to be on good terms with him because I didn't feel like being shot at for something stupid. I didn't hang out with him per se, but occasionally I would give him a ride home from school or I would help him with his school work, give him answers on tests, etc. As a result, he flat out told me that if I ever needed his help, to just let him know. Little did I know that I would actually need his help...
One night while hanging out with my buddies, Eric and Ray, I ran into Exxon and some Mexican kid named Gilbert. VERY long story short, we had been out all night when Gilbert said he knew this girl whose apt. we could crash at. At 6:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning, the five of us are knocking on this girls' door. She didn't answer, so Eric, Ray and I went back to my car to sleep. Next thing we know, Exxon and Gilbert come flying around the corner, yelling for us to go because the girl is flying after them with a frying pan. Come to find out, one of them kicked her door in - I can only assume to rob her. Since it was my car, the girl got my licence plates and two days later, I'm talking with 2 officers and my mom in my living room. I told them everything but Exxon's name. Anyway, my favor was paid in full one day after Gilbert started hassling me to tell the police that Exxon kicked the door in. I told Gilbert I could care less who kicked it in, that I wasn't there and to leave me alone about it. Next thing I know, Gilbert seemed to always "be around" wherever I went. I told Exxon about it and he smiled. "Don't worry about Gilbert, he won't bother you anymore." After that, I saw Gilbert around school a few times, but I never saw him "around" anymore.
Like I said, it's risky, but I made the best of what could've been a VERY bad situation had I not gotten on Exxon's good side to start with. Anyway, most gang-bangers that know you as a person will tend to leave you alone as long as you don't disrespect them as a person. At least that was my impression. Maybe I'm just old...>
Post: angryrocker4:
[quote=Stazzy
You should probably refrain from giving advice...ever. Killing one gang member is in no way a "permanent solution".[/quote Dude,Get your head out of your butt. First, I was talking about all of them, not just one. Second, these guys do not mess with people that even give a slight ounce of being able to take care of themselves, and a big bad gun is a great equalizer just in case.
If gangs are a problem, get rid of them permanently. Jail doesnt work. You show me one dead person that actively commits crime. Zero tolerance is the only answer, you steal, we remove your hands, problem solved. Sell drugs, we overdose you, no more problem there. Murder, we kill you etc.
Its either let stuff run wild or go zero tolerance. There's no room for gray areas anymore, avoid the appearance of impropriety or take the risk of the consequences. My area doesnt have these problems, anymore, mainly cause we're all NRA guys who WONT tolerate that shit where we live. We actually had the MS-13 a few years back, they "live" in wooden boxes now or ran away somewhere else.
If only people would quit being half assed on this stuff and stick to a position, we'd be better off. Either let things run wild, or have zero tolerance. We have enough public services out there to avoid the need of committing crimes. No excuses. Or maybe most people havent seen the horror of what this stuff leads to, I've seen more than enough and I dont want to see anymore.>
Post: zefff:
Hopefully anyone taking advise from a viking would at least read his sig to get a quick account of what type of person they are dealing with.
"Berzerker's Rule!!!
People say violence isn't the answer, I say they just aren't asking the right question.
Shameless, do you know what happens when your face is initially pulled off? Do you?"
:lol:>
Post: V-for-Vendetta:
Thanks for the advice everyone. I think one of the smartest things I've heard so far was to become "friends" with them. Not necessarily friends, but to be on good terms with them.>
Post: zefff:
Where Im from getting on good terms with them simply allows them to learn about you and your habits so they can rob you better.>
Post: angryrocker4:
See, Zeff has an excellent point!>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
Nick is on the money.
Zefff is close, but no cigar.
AngryRocker will get you killed.
Gangsters put a lot of stock into loyalty as a virtue, and if you get in tight with some of these guys, you'll be safer than you would be alone.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Thats cause there's no social cohesion. Lets all just let trash take over.>
Post: zefff:
Tease,
I guess it must be a cultural nuance then because in England there is no such thing as loyalty to anyone, member or not. Domination is all that counts. Its like every urban numskull is a wannabe Megatron or Starscream hustling for energon. :wink:>
Post: angryrocker4:
Thats the first transformers metaphor I've ever seen.........>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
That's the best Transformers metaphor I've ever seen.
Social cohesion is not prevalent in urban setting outside of gangs for sociological reasons I won't bore anyone with. But, I'm sure we've all seen or heard of small, rural towns where everyone knows each other and neighbors watch out for each other. That's another reason why gangs stick to urban areas. If TTT, pimp of pimps, moved out to the sticks, Boss Hog and his Good Ol' Boys would chase me out of their daughter's rooms with shotguns before I could set up my racket.>
Post: Stazzy:
It's always nice to have friends in low places. Like Nick said, if you earn their respect, you should be fine. Just don't go too far to earn it; stay on friendly terms without necessarily becoming a gang member yourself. Oh and don't speed when you're in the car with two gang members. You never want something like that on your record.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
My Shaolin master, after he returned from Hong Kong after being there and training every day from age 3-15 at the Wudan temple, came back to Monroe and proceeded, with friends from his hood, to end up with the largest and most respected gang in Louisiana until he moved to Texas in 1988. When I joined him after returning from Hong Kong and NYC in 1989, after being with my Ying Jow master's master, a few years later we had a junior student who said hi one day to a girl who was dating a high school Crip member. Long story short, my master found the gang leader, told him to be at a junior high parking lot, and when they got there, were met with 8 of us with uniforms on and Chinese weapons. My master, who was a big African American at 5'11" and almost 300 pounds of muscle with over 30 years of training, got out, assigned 3-4 people to each of us and then talked to the other leader. He basically told the gang leader today was a good day to die and we would protect our 14 year old student at all costs.
The gang leader, like most gangs when faced with real challenges, backed down and got in the car when my master told him we might die today but he would be first and the most horrible way!! Afterwards, the gangs in Arlington, Tx. between Dallas and Ft. Worth, stayed out of the parks around there and the police became our buddies and gave us a comendation. Most gangs are only as strong as their leader and their leaders are usually not that brave without guns or numbers to back them.
As far as my brother's NB's suggestion, I partially concur but it also matters how well one is accepted by the gangs as no threat and with respect and one's ability to be respected by them without being associated with them. My brother, you could have easily becom a guilt by association target by the police or other gangs. That was treading water very easily....I always knew deep down you were crazy and horny!!
Stas, before you say what you did to Black Panta, I would make sure who he is...in this case if I remember he hangs around the Cliff in South Dallas, and being from Dallas myself you ought to provide some respect. It seems lately my two young brothers have become this way....relax and reply with respect unless you are directly disrespected without provocation. Just a suggestion to both Wushu and Stas from their older sihing.....>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Sorry about some misspellings...I was writing this quickly before doing some work and about to go train on my own.>
Post: Stazzy:
[quote=Bloodybirds relax and reply with respect unless you are directly disrespected without provocation. Just a suggestion to both Wushu and Stas from their older sihing.....[/quote
[quote=BLACK PANTA wushu and stazzy, since you both seem to want to defend rap, I will use a quote from a gangsta rapper to address you both
"SHUT YOUR MOUTH WHEN GROWN MEN ARE TALKIN" 50 cent.[/quote
:?>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
Fifty is not gangsta.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=WushuPadawan001 Fifty is not gangsta.[/quote
You're absolutely right. Because Curtis Jackson wasn't shot thirteen times in his youth for being the son of a drug cartel's leader. Because Curtis Jackson himself didn't sling crack rock on the corner of the street before his career took off. You're absolutely right, Fifty is not gangsta.
If I got any more sarcastic, my pancreas might blow out.>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
HeÂ’s a thug, not a gangsta. But I hear where youÂ’re coming from.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
Would you care to illustrate the difference between 'thug' and 'gangsta?'>
Post: UKE03743:
Quoting: angryrocker4;43059 Dude,Get your head out of your butt. First, I was talking about all of them, not just one. Second, these guys do not mess with people that even give a slight ounce of being able to take care of themselves, and a big bad gun is a great equalizer just in case.
If gangs are a problem, get rid of them permanently. Jail doesnt work. You show me one dead person that actively commits crime. Zero tolerance is the only answer, you steal, we remove your hands, problem solved. Sell drugs, we overdose you, no more problem there. Murder, we kill you etc.
Its either let stuff run wild or go zero tolerance. There's no room for gray areas anymore, avoid the appearance of impropriety or take the risk of the consequences. My area doesnt have these problems, anymore, mainly cause we're all NRA guys who WONT tolerate that shit where we live. We actually had the MS-13 a few years back, they "live" in wooden boxes now or ran away somewhere else.
If only people would quit being half assed on this stuff and stick to a position, we'd be better off. Either let things run wild, or have zero tolerance. We have enough public services out there to avoid the need of committing crimes. No excuses. Or maybe most people havent seen the horror of what this stuff leads to, I've seen more than enough and I dont want to see anymore.
OK...FIrst off...i'm a detention officer with lengthy study time about gangs... MARASALVATRUCHA-13 or MS-13. Grew out of the Zetas of mexico. The Zetas were basically Mexican special forces...so our guys went over and trained them even better... you see at this time Mexico was having huge problem's with drug cartels... so these ZETAs were suppossed to be the guys who went in to take care of the cartels....
after our guys trainded them, they began their mission...and realized something.... Drug Cartels pay better than the Mexican Govt. Long story short...they turned. They started attacking govt. strongholds. basically decided that they would work for the cartels instead...
These days the ZETAs pretty much run their own game...
MS-13 started out as a prison gang that was headed by a few of the zetas that had been captured...it started spreading. MS-13, Much like the zetas are not to be taken lightly... i saw videos whne in the academy here of Zetas feeding their prisoners to tigers. Nearly all street gangs originated from Prison gangs, and the majority are still ran by guys on the inside who call the shots.
My opinion...either move...or just steer very, very clear of them. They are BAD GUYS!!!>
Post: bamboo:
Hi Uke,
I'm not sure where your getting your information from but I believe you may be mixing your facts with another gang.
The MS-13 or Marasalvatrucha are an american/salvadorean gang. THe word "Salvatrucha" itself is a spanish slang meaning "salvadorean" The gang itself started in the early 70s in the USA, LA to be exact on Union and Pico streets to counteract the strong mexican gang presence.
They do operate in the honduras and el salvadore as well but not did originate at all as a prison gang.
I was unable to find anything regarding the "zetas" special forces connection you reffered to in any of the federal, state or "gangwatch" US sited available to the public. What I did find however was what I wrote above plus quite abit more. Even wikipedia has an entry on them with solid references. Perhaps you could link us some of your sources so we could correct any misunderstandings we have?
From what I understand "los Zetas" are as you say a former elite police/special forces group with american training turned criminal and hired by Osiel Cardenos (sp?) the then leader of the world famous "gulf cartel". They are however a strictly mexican based organization and not a gang per say. Their level of organization and culture puts them in a different bracket than regular western gang culture.
I did find this on the wiki which gives another account for the etymology of the name you may find interesting:
Etymology
There are various possible explanations for the name Mara Salvatrucha. Some sources state the gang is named for La Mara, a street in San Salvador, and the Salvatrucha guerrillas who fought in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War" El Salvador's bloody civil war[/URL [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha#_note-8" [13 [/URL . Additionally, the word mara means gang in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliche_%28linguistics%29" Caliche[/URL and is taken from marabunta, the name of a fierce type of ant. "Salvatrucha" is a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau" portmanteau[/URL of Salvadoran and trucha, a Caliche word for being alert, usually entailing preparedness for crime or abuse from police. Mara Salvatrucha is also commonly translated as Salvadoran Army Ant. Alternate explanations are that it may be a reference either to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Mafia" Mexican Mafia[/URL prison gang or to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maravilla" Maravilla[/URL group of gangs, the letter 'M' being the 13th in the alphabet. However, their use of the "13" bears them no membership to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Mafia" Mexican Mafia[/URL or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sure%C3%B1os" Sureños[/URL , as it's merely used together with much of their imitation of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sure%C3%B1o" Sureño[/URL gang culture.
Interesting stuff to say the least.
-bamboo>
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