Street Fighting 101
Original Poster: Jack_Vallick
Forum: Hand to Hand Combat
Posted On: 11-02-2006, 03:32
Orginal Post: Jack_Vallick: One thing that's rarely covered here is the art of dirty fighting (which is what street fighting breaks down to). I mean, old-school looping a guy up in order to take charge of a fight. Though this kind of fighting has a bad reputation, and will usually get you called a pussy -- its also saved lives, and been vital to even trained combatants.
My great-grandfather, one of those old-time guys from the boat lived back in the bare-knuckle days of 1919. Many of times, even before the new sprawling arsenel available to private citizens, he was beaten nearly to death in fights by either being ganged-up on or just in the day-to-day life of middle-class citylife as a cab-driver. He almost died a few times because of it. Then he got a pair of brass knuckles and a .38 -- but that's another story altogether. But that isn't the way most of us want to go in life.
However, everyone has this whole machismo complex about fair fighting. If anyone who has ever said that actually witnessed, or has been involved in a real fight before, they'd realize it was an oxymoron to the enth-degree. The fact of the matter is that the same people who proclaim the ethics of fair fighting when they've got six guys standing behind them, in a dark alley at two in the morning aren't exactly the best resources to take ideology from. Esspecially as they're the same people who will hole up and crack you in the face a few dozen or so times with a baseball bat.
Having said all of that, this brings me to my point: one should NEVER bring the dojo to the back-alleys at night. Simple matter of fact is, I have personally witnessed fairly decorated martial artists getting leveled out on the streets. There is no whistle when you're fighting for your life. So you have to be completely resigned to doing the one thing most sane citizens can't accomplish, even when they have something like mace or a gun.
You need to accept the fact that you'll severely harm another human-being. Since the majority of us aren't (*complete*) psychos, this very notion is extremely difficult. Oftentimes, people will allow themselves to be maimed or even killed because they can't instill that kind of animal fury in themselves. So, if you happen to have a brick by your person, or something you can use -- smash your attacker in the face enough times to disable them. If someone has you pinned on the ground and you have a knife, stab them as much as you can to either get away or gain the upper-hand. And, if by any chance, you see a chance to apply one of the moves or techniques you've learned, do it ruthlessly and with more force than you've ever even imagined in the dojos or computer screens. Snap legs, break arms, gouge eyes, slice and mangle. Remember that whatever horrible thing that you do to them; they'll just as soon do ten times worse to you.
This is one of the more difficult things for people to do, esspecially if they've never been in a proper combat situation before. There isn't a time limit, where your opponent will step back and throw one of those kicks you've practiced. In many cases, most fights break-down to simple swinging punches and kicks, which go almost immediately to the ground, one way or the other. Then, once even some of the best guys get an upper-hand, they can't follow through. That's because REAL combat and what you prepare for in your mind are two different things. Nothing is clean.
Hitting an eighty pound soft-bag is all fine an well. But its nothing when you feel cartiledge snapping under brute force, bones creaking and popping, the sensation of feeling flesh literally bounce with a huge strike. The wailing of another human-being is something very difficult to deal with, no matter how prepared you are or what state of anger you may be in.
So, I guess my point is to take what you learn and then apply it with ruthless sensibilities. One of the best things to do is think about your opponent as an enemy. Never consider them a person, or what the implications might be -- as long as you have enough control not to go fatal or seriously go any more extreme than they're going. Recall what led to the fight and pump yourself up with how they've invaded your life and what you need to do to walk home with yourself more intact than they are.
This isn't a game, guys. Pretty much everyone loses in a modern fight -- as dead a concept as that realistically is. You probably will have them trying to get retribution, or you'll get injured, and maybe even something like a crisis of conscience over what you need to do.
Post: Hengest:
Thanks for the post Jack. You make a lot of good points. I would say though the majority of what you've posted is nothing new to most here, particularly the "old hands" at this site.
I think the main reason you don't see much discussion of reality combat here is because we've already done it to death. When I first joined this site a couple of years back, there was a lot of discussion on the reality of confrontation and the ramifications of not training for the pavement arena, as Geoff Thompson calls it. That's not to say we shouldn't discuss it anymore, just that there's not much left for us to discuss.
Unfortunately, a lot of our old discussions on this topic were lost when the site's format was changed a while back, so you won't find them in the archives. So, I suppose with that in mind, there's nothing wrong with restating a lot of what we've said before, just so that it's up on the site.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
Let's run through a very abbreviated list of evil deeds I've done in a streetbeating:
- Thumbed the eye
- Kicked the crotch
- Headbutted the nose
- Used ears as grips
- Pulled hair
- Scratched/Bit flesh to escape holds
- Shivved the kidneys with a broken bottle
- Threw a guy into traffic
- Slammed a head into a dumpster
- Stole a kid's bike to escape
Please, tell me more about fighting dirty. I'm not sure I'm doing it right.>
Post: zefff:
I dont think the means are that important as long as they achieve the ends you need and as long as your 'ends' are reasonable.
Sport fighters need the self-gratification that comes from feeling that they have performed well or succeeded in winning a bout. So they perform according to their minds image of a fighter and guage their success on how closely they have mimicked this image. In all my experiences of real threatening situations performance goes out the window and results become the driving factor. I have never felt like a fighter in a real fight, I have either felt like a victim or a predator.
Victims have been imposed upon and predators want to impose, so if I want to survive - and I have a right to do so, I must impose myself on the one who wants to take away my right by any reasonable means instead of continuing to feel victimised (and powerless).
That is common sense to my mind :)>
Post: Gangsta_Nerd:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
TTT,
What happened to the chump you threw into traffic :?: :lol: >
Post: nbotary:
[quote=Tease T Tickle
- Threw a guy into traffic
[/quote DUDE!!! What the hell happened to that guy?!?!>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
He suffered a fractured skull, orbital bone and ribs with a separated shoulder and some lost teeth to boot. He died in the hospital a few days later from an apparant overdose of morphine. Doctors make mistakes sometimes, I guess.>
Post: nbotary:
So, technically, you could say that you've helped kill a man, huh??? :wink: :lol:>
Post: GrappleToWin:
edit:* GrappletoWin, STFU and find your playground fight advise elsewhere*>
Post: vladimir:
[quote=Tease T Tickle - Shivved the kidneys with a broken bottle[/quote
What happened to that guy?>
Post: Gazelle:
I have to write it all again now!
Tease. T. Tickle, how many street fights have you actually been in? Did you get into trouble for stealing the bike?
Zefff, now your the one who's sounding like the psychology major, or maybe even a philosphy one.
Now back to the topic. I agree with what Jack_Vallick wrote. Lets face it, if honour, fairness, respect, perspective and etiquette (mind you, for many people that might just be wh the fight started, so i will state that i mean these things in a more traditional sense if anone can understand that) had anything to do with it the street fight wouldn't have started in the first place. The world is not fair so how can you expect street fights to be. They aren't some dance fabricated to find out who's top dog without harming anyone like some animals have, they are meant to be as effective as possible, so in that circumstance the only thing the defender can do is fight back in the same manner, of course trying to minimalise the damage given to the opponent, as much as circumstances allow.>
Post: Gazelle:
Oh, yes, just curious, how does the credit rating for the belts work?>
Post: Gazelle:
No worries about the last question, noticed another post with same question!>
Post: zefff:
[quote=Gazelle
Zefff, now your the one who's sounding like the psychology major, or maybe even a philosphy one.[/quote
:lol: I honestly dont know squat. There are people on here who will drill you into the ground on psychology and philosophy if you mess with them.>
Post: Gazelle:
Then i might jus be tempted to mess with them! And, if you 'don't know squat', then you did an awfully good job in hiding it!>
Post: nbotary:
Gazelle - Tease is one of the people Zefff is talking about. I HIGHLY recommend that you don't try and mess with him - you'll end up getting slammed like a twinkie at a camp for fat kids!!!>
Post: zefff:
:roll: ...why do people big up Des? Its bad enough with that huge gizmo he's got singing his praises at the end of every post. Man I hate that thing! :twisted:>
Post: nbotary:
C'mon Zefff, you've got to admit that the boy is good at what he does!!!>
Post: dscott:
[quote=Gazelle I have to write it all again now!
Tease. T. Tickle, how many street fights have you actually been in? Did you get into trouble for stealing the bike?[/quote
With all the other things he said (ie. threw someone in traffic, shived a kidney, etc....) you're worried about this kids bike? I just found that funny.>
Post: Gazelle:
Well, i figured everyone would have all the other stuff covered, besides when i read it, it reminded me of something from a film. I had this picture of this bloke cycling away on this small bike with the kid who owned it standing watching.>
Post: Gazelle:
Oh, don't worry about me messing with anyone, i wouldn't do anything to get them too mad, i'd just give them enough to get them thinking! Sorry, i'm writing tonnes of separate posts, it is completely unintentional.>
Post: zefff:
[quote=nbotary C'mon Zefff, you've got to admit that the boy is good at what he does!!![/quote
okay I'll admit it before he comes back and decides to fuck me up :lol:>
Post: Gazelle:
Very wise, very wise...>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=nbotary So, technically, you could say that you've helped kill a man, huh??? :wink: :lol:[/quote
Suffice to say, I have some bad karma to work off.
[quote=vladimir What happened to that guy?[/quote
The broken bottle actually mostly went around his kidney, but he bled severely and the guys I was with thought it would be merciful to save him the expense of a hospital trip. I left the mark with them and never asked what happened to him. Once again, bad karma.
[quote=Gazelle Something about the kid's bike.[/quote
In Detroit, when a kid's bike gets stolen, one of two things happens: the parents buy a new bike or the parents don't buy a new bike. I never got in trouble for it and I have no idea what happened with the kid. All I know is that bike seats hurt my ass, so the next time I need a quick get-away, I'm stealing a car.
I forgot your question about street fights. My view is that if you get into a fight, you've already failed. I've gotten into maybe ten fights, and they were all my fault. I don't keep track of how many times I've gotten my ass kicked or how many asses I've kicked, so I can't give you a number, but if you loosen the definition of fight to something more like beating, then I'm probably sitting at fifty. I've stopped my wicked ways, so that estimation won't change unless I uncover lost video footage of me stomping some gangbanger's groin.
[quote=Gazelle Something about messing with psychology/philosophy people[/quote
That would be me. If you have any particular curiosity in either of those fields, feel free to send me a PM. I'm actually fairly pleasant to communicate with, provided you haven't angered me.
[quote=Zefff Something about my sloganizer[/quote
The sloganizer is pimptastic and you know it. You should get one of your own, because you deserve it. Oh, and people "big" me or whatever the hell you said because, at the very least, I'm fucking hilarious. :lol:>
Post: nbotary:
Gazelle - I can attest to the fact that Tease is quite pleasant to converse with and his sense of humor is outstanding to say the least!!! :wink: :lol:>
Post: Gazelle:
Oh, i absolutely believe it, if i didn't then i wouldn't have said anything about the psychology/philosophy 'stuff' (i hate using that word in places like this). And trust me, i'm not one to anger anyone if i can help it.>
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