Trouble after UFC 70
Original Poster: Pim1
Forum: Hand to Hand Combat
Posted On: 01-05-2007, 08:14
Orginal Post: Pim1: Me & my friend were walking back to the car after enjoying UFC 70 in manchester, we were part of a large group (about 100 people) when we noticed raised voices, we looked over to see a male in his mid twentys & his wife/girlfriend shouting at a car with 5 adult males inside (lots of people around, the car could not move) . He wanted one or more to get out, his girlfriend was also shouting at them. iam not sure why they wanted 5 males to get out it must have been some sort of road rage. after 10 sec or so the front passenger gets out & the man who was shouting dropped his bottle quicker than a greasy palmed milkman but his girlfriend did not, she ran at him he grabbed her and tossed her to the floor & pulled his right leg back to kick her in the face thankfully he thought better of it, as this was happining a second male jumped out of the car and ran at the husband/boyfriend but nothing happened between them. Lots of shouting and threats followed etc.
nobody including myself did anything to stop or calm the incident down. the males got into the car and drove off. the whole thing lasted 30-40 sec or so.
Now that the facts are there, what are the lessons we should take from this incident?. here are mine
- do not challenge 5 adult males, you cannot win
- before leaving the house lock your ego in a box so it dose not get you killed, the whole incident was over nothing.
- self defence training is about protecting oneself & loved ones he did neither due to ego etc.
Post: zefff:
What 90% of the n00bs dont realise is that most of the hardcore UK fans actually train and maybe fight themselves and usually go to events with mates who also train. Seen it SOoo many times where chavvy, pricks get hyped up and want to take it to the streets, not realising that the litle quiet guy (with the bald head and odd tattoo here and there :D) they might fancy their chances with is actually the last guy they should want to fight.
TBH an MMA event is the last place for a thug to get pissed and rowdy. LMAO!>
Post: Triple T:
[quote=Pim1;49018
nobody including myself did anything to stop or calm the incident down.[/quote
That's the biggest, most important lesson of this post. Fuck "self-defense" training. Most of us should be in "decent human being" training.>
Post: zefff:
Why should they stop it though...all that happened was some bitch got slammed. Maybe she and her boyfriend learned a lesson that night.>
Post: Pim1:
Triple T
the whole incident was over very quickly, before anybody could do anything she was on the floor ready to be kicked, no one could have stopped him kicking her it was to far gone. the guy was going to fight anybody that came his way (very pumped up on adrenalin). remember the car had 5 lads in it what do you think would have happened when we got involved verbally or physically? nobody helped them so why would the 100 or so people help us. i think the husband/boyfriend learnt a lesson that night to not be a dick.>
Post: dscott:
I'm confused. Who was the provoker? The guys in the car, the guy with his girl or the girl?>
Post: Triple T:
[quote=zefff;49048 Why should they stop it though...all that happened was some bitch got slammed. Maybe she and her boyfriend learned a lesson that night.[/quote
This time. And there's no way anyone could have known that at the time action should have been taken.
[quote=pim1 the whole incident was over very quickly, before anybody could do anything she was on the floor ready to be kicked, no one could have stopped him kicking her it was to far gone....remember the car had 5 lads in it what do you think would have happened when we got involved verbally or physically? nobody helped them so why would the 100 or so people help us.[/quote
The point of intervention would not be to prevent the female in question from getting tossed to ground and/or kicked. It would be to prevent further action on the part of either party, which at the time you could not have known would not happen. If you think that trying to handle the party of five is difficult, wait until you realized you'd be in a two-fronted war with the party of two. The issue is not simply one of throwing down. The issue is quite a bit more like defusing a bomb. If you don't know how to break up a fight, then once again you're probably in the wrong training. Bouncers and cops get to break up fights every night. Talk to a few of them. You don't need help from 100 if you know what you're doing. Examine guerilla warfare and adapt your strategies.>
Post: Pim1:
The man & woman were the ones demanding the men to get out of the car. whatever happened before that who knows, they should have let it go. he would have let it go if he was on his own but things seem to change when men are with their women.>
Post: Pim1:
When he didnt kick the women it did seem to calm down slightly (distance increased between the groups etc), i think people saw that & waited to see what happened, i know i did. personally i would have tried to stop the man beating the women up but i could have only done that after she took a kick to the face(it all happened so quick).
Triple T you are right about talking to police & bouncers to learn from them which i do & i have done conflict resolution training as part of Geoff Thompsons courses. But my training is MMA/BJJ. I am only telling a story of what happened & what we felt at the time rightly or wrongly.>
Post: nbotary:
I definately do not advocate violence against a woman, but I will admit that I have met quite a few women who I wish had been men!!!
You know the sad thing is that the woman ALWAYS has the power in a confrontation. She could come at you with a frying pan and try to beat you about the head, but if you even touch her in self-defence, you'll be labled as a woman beater or you'll go to jail. How fucked up is that?!?!?! A woman can provoke a fight with a man and he's the one who gets screwed in the end!!! :mad:>
Post: Triple T:
[quote=Pim1;49063 When he didnt kick the women it did seem to calm down slightly (distance increased between the groups etc), i think people saw that & waited to see what happened, i know i did. personally i would have tried to stop the man beating the women up but i could have only done that after she took a kick to the face(it all happened so quick).[/quote
That's a common perspective. It's one I wish would change.
Quote: I am only telling a story of what happened & what we felt at the time rightly or wrongly.
I understand that. When I made my initial post it was intended to be an addendum to your list of lessons from the incident. The lesson being that people, especially when in groups, would rather watch something awful happen than try to stop something awful from happening. Even if she did get kicked in the face and even if you did step in, the whole circumstance has changed from an emotionally charged stand-off to a criminal case and probably a stay in a hospital for at least the kicker and the kicked, possible more if the situation did go further.
I liken real life fights and the events which lead up to them to the tension between Pakistan and India over the Kashmir region. We, as outsiders, can sit back and wait for somebody to become overtly hostile and get in the middle of a confrontation or we can try to keep the confrontation from happening. Which, in your opinion, is the more worthwhile pursuit?>
Post: dscott:
[quote=Pim1;49062 he would have let it go if he was on his own but things seem to change when men are with their women.[/quote
That always seems to be the case. Only because these women can't keep their mouths shut. They act all tough and want the guys to fight for them.>
Post: zefff:
Quoting: dscott;49076 That always seems to be the case. Only because these women can't keep their mouths shut. They act all tough and want the guys to fight for them.
obviously never been 'Oop north'! :lol:
Seriously though, I remember a report on increased female alcohol related crime and it has something to do with inebriation causing testosterone levels to rise in women so that their bodies are charged in a way they arent emotionally accustomed to.>
Post: dscott:
[quote=zefff;49079 their bodies are charged in a way they arent emotionally accustomed to.[/quote
Their bodies are always changing in a way they aren't emotionally accustomed to.:lol: It's called marriage.>
Post: Triple T:
or pregnancy. or PMS. or motherhood. or a nose full of cocaine.
Face it, women are just plain crazy.>
Post: samurai6string:
women are always out for blood. When 2 guys get into a confrontation, there is always alot of posturing and preening going on, and then the 2 circle each other out of range and end up bumping together like Sea Lions.
Women just grab a chunk of hair and start whoopin' ass. lol. No talk, all action.>
Post: zefff:
Quoting: Triple T;49086
Face it, women are just plain crazy.
Thats what I say! Even my own mother is crazy!...its true! :lol:>
Post: lakan_sampu:
Quote: the whole incident was over very quickly, before anybody could do anything she was on the floor ready to be kicked, no one could have stopped him kicking her it was to far gone. the guy was going to fight anybody that came his way (very pumped up on adrenalin). remember the car had 5 lads in it what do you think would have happened when we got involved verbally or physically? nobody helped them so why would the 100 or so people help us. i think the husband/boyfriend learnt a lesson that night to not be a dick.
"Bystander Effect", I think its what it is called in social psychology; about a group of people not interfering with someone's trouble. They say it might be that the mere presence of other people induce a feeling or thought to an indivudual that the others might help and everybody in that group tends to think the same.
I remembered when I was in 3rd year college. A student was mugged in broad daylight, about lunch break actually, a few meters from the university gate and no one helped him during that incident. When I got out of the convenient store, I saw the young guy helpless there, the mugger already gone..sad, sad..>
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