Old-school
Original Poster: theinevitablehour
Forum: Kickboxing & Boxing Forum
Posted On: 06-06-2006, 05:20
Orginal Post: theinevitablehour: Just recently I've become enamoured with historic martial arts. I've a heavy bag, and for the past several weeks I've been practicing boxing using the stance of the old bare-knucklers--striking with vertical fist, guard extended. Anyway, I was just wondering if any of you had any comments about this style, or any suggestions. Also, has anyone here ever used himantes? Or where could I learn how to wrap them?
Post: IsshinRyuRocks:
I do know that the vertical fist is stronger and faster we use it for our regular punching in Isshin Ryu Karate, Instead of the twist punch>
Post: theinevitablehour:
As of now my jab is faster, but it doesn't seem as strong as before. Also, I don't use gloves for the bag, and my knuckles don't get scraped with vertical fist; when I used twist punch.
Have any boxers out there sparred using this style?>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
I was joking around with it once in a sparring session. I caught a lot of hooks over the extended guard.>
Post: zefff:
I work both punches.
The punch thrown with a vertical fist will theoretically be faster because there are less muscle groups contracting to produce the action or antagonistically against the action to slow it down but it will theoretically be weaker because of the tricep area having to do most of the work without much support. If you work at it you can bring in some help from the lats and rear of the shoulder though.
You can prove it by doing 100 press ups (or whatever is a good amount for you) on your fists with them placed vertically, elbows in. Then do the same amount on fists with them horizontal. You should feel what muscles are working and that the second set is much easier because there are more muscles working together to perform the action.
If you are grazing your bag your form is incorrect. Slow down and look at what you are doing wrong, then correct it.>
Post: graham1:
[quote=theinevitablehour Just recently I've become enamoured with historic martial arts. I've a heavy bag, and for the past several weeks I've been practicing boxing using the stance of the old bare-knucklers--striking with vertical fist, guard extended. Anyway, I was just wondering if any of you had any comments about this style, or any suggestions. Also, has anyone here ever used himantes? Or where could I learn how to wrap them?[/quote
Himantes? Now you're talking about ancient Greek olympian pugilism! Here's a link that might help: http://www.hellenism.com/olympics/boxing.htm>
Post: graham1:
The English school of boxing was first popularized by a sword fighting master named James Figg who noted that his boxing demonstrations were more popular than his weapons demonstrations. Until that time, boxing was taught as the unarmed combat element in a package of martial arts. When taught as a package such training was only for rich people. Figg saw the financial possiblities in separating the boxing from the rest & teaching it to poorer people. I say people as women also fought in boxing tournaments against other women. The difference between their boxing & men's was that they were made to hold a sovereign (a £1 coin) in each hand, to make sure that they used teir fists & to prevent them using their nails & fingers. If they dropped a coin they lost. If they kept their fists closed & beat their opponent, they got all four sovereigns. (Add: This is where the expressions of 'giving someone a pounding', 'pounding your fists' etc. come from.)
Until the adoption of the Marquis of Queensbury's rules, & the move to indoor rings - to avoid the authorities clamp down on public gatherings, there were pretty much no rules in boxing, apart from holding the hands in fists. Hand blows could be made in any manner as long as it was with the fist, although the use of gloves was gradually brought in but not made compulsory in all cases, & all manner of kicks & throws were used. The Marquis's rules limited the use of kicks to back-heeling an opponent's legs to trip him, & throws to the 'cross-buttock' & pushing while back-heeling, & increased the usage of gloves. Timed rounds were also introduced. Previously a round was decided as ended whenever one boxer was knocked down.
Over the years, more & more of the hand techniques were outlawed, until the four we have now were left: the jab, the straight, the hook, the uppercut. Believe it or not these are left because they are the safest of the punches that were originally available!
The boxing stance has also changed radically over the years. The original one was made with the body leaning back a little, with more weight on the back foot than the front & with an extended guard - very similar to some schools of Wing Chun. The straight punches were thrown with a vertical fist & all punches were thrown from this posture with a rapid forward lean & putting a lot of weight on the front foot.
The change to the present boxing stance was made when Philipino immigrants to the US, in the 1930's, who were trained in Panantukan got involved in professional boxing - hence the posture with more weight on the front foot than the back, the hands held in a high & close guard position next to the head & the skilled use of bobbing, ducking, weaving & footwork. They introduced the use of a vertical fist for hooking & a rapid placing of weight onto the back foot to power lead-hand hooks, along with the increased usage of hip twists to power all punches.
The Marquis of Queensbury's rules have long since ceased to be used. The British Boxing Board of Control's rules are used for professional boxing here, & the Amateur Boxing Association's rules are used for amateur boxing here in Britain.>
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