Besides Chinese wrestling, where there any other...
Original Poster: Twitch
Forum: Kung Fu Styles, Chinese Martial Arts
Posted On: 15-11-2005, 15:17
Orginal Post: Twitch: Chinese styles that did the ground fighting thing? I think the Shaolin did, but I'm not sure.
Post: Hengest:
You might want to check out an old thread we did on kuo ch'uan: http://www.fightauthority.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1648&highlight=>
Post: Twitch:
Well, hasn't anyone ever told black panta that he is a genius? See this is why I never think of myself as great, cause I keep on learning stuff. Okay, I learning is always good.
Thanks a whole lot.>
Post: zed:
every single KF style has some sort of ground fighting involved, you just need to really look at what your sifu is teaching and make it yours, KF to me is like a fingerprint...its looks different for each person, my KF would look different than yours, i would bet a lot of money that your sifu has taught you ground fighting, you just dont see it yet. keep up the hard work and you will. or maybe thats just for me....who knows.>
Post: zefff:
Zed,
how can u be taught groundfighting and not see it yet? Right now that sounds bogus to me. I could equate it to me teaching a 5 year old maths. If I explain how long division works but he doesnt get it...he aint got no math! The practice is pointless!
Also what is the point of me teaching some long divison and having my 5 year old concentrating his focus on digesting that while trying to subliminally sneak in some multiplication?
Why try and bullshit that my CMA has some grappling? Why not just come to a conclusion that groundwork was not as important to the fathers of my art? Maybe I am wrong but to me it seems common sense that groundfighting would be inferior to forces roaming about with spears, swords and even wooden weapons! Im not saying there is no grappling in any CMA but if you dont specifically and regularly drill and spar clinch, throws, takedowns, submissions and positions then forget it! Sorry but I know I dont do half of that. I might be able to survive with a dumb thug and yeah Ive got a couple of throws and takedowns but I know I aint got shit on the ground really.
Sorry to go on but I personally cant stand all that 'hidden meaning' stuff. If its hidden its pointless and it wont make us any better if we cant understand it and make it work. If the hidden meaning argument was valid then by that logic your kwoon wouldnt advertise and you would have to do some detective work just to find they exist.>
Post: zed:
i have been taking KF for a few years now and when i was just starting there was a lot i didnt see.....if you see everything as soon as its shown to you, well......you're the badest brain alive, good for you.....but being that you curse so much im gonna guess either you're young, and/ or a punk (dont bash what you dont understand, learn about it 1st). i dont understand some of the people on this forum. all you do is bash and if you re read what i wrote you would see you're reading it wrong. now lets see if you can reply without cursing...i doubt it, but we will see.....i feel sorry for your teacher......or maybe i just got lucky with mine.>
Post: zed:
by not looking at the "hidden meaning" stuff you mentioned, you will get beat by it one day....dont shrug off things because you dont understand it...look into it and then decide if it's for you or not, you're just cheating yourself. oh well, i can only do what works for me (and you the same i guess)>
Post: zefff:
Whoop-di-doo I said bullshit. Sorry. Even though you didnt address all my questions and points within my post, I'll address yours.
1) I might not see everything but what I do see I ask about.
2) I curse because I am unhappy.
3) People have the right to bash or nut ride.
4) I can read English quite well because I am English.
5) "...i feel sorry for your teacher......or maybe i just got lucky with mine."
I thought I would quote you on that becasue it is a ridiculous statement. Are you implying that I bring shame on my Sifu while you are lucky because it is easy for you to make him or her feel proud? So do you train for that purpose? Is me asking questions and being unhappy enough to curse a shame unto my Sifu?
My Sifu does not control my tongue and regardless, what is on my tongue does not reflect the contents of my heart. IMHO your quick judgement is a weakness.
Living to please others is the road of a pet dog. If your happy pleasing then cool but I train to please myself. If I piss of my Sifu he'll tell me, I'll think about it and we will have a disscussion. What has that got to do with you and your moral standards?
peace>
Post: zed:
my comment about you "shaming" your sifu was confermed in your last statement...thank you for prooving me right.....but seriously i respect my sifu a lot (as im sure you do too) its not a fancy place with fancy tools....i helped him rebuild all the stations (for the animal styles) and helped him train forms to the lower levels while he trained the vets. he is one of my best friend and i didnt even know him 5 years ago. the karate kid bad guy attitude MA seems to attract will never stop i understand that. but there are still some people that train old school because imo it is still the better. but i have a feeling that neither of us will change the others mind.....so, oh well. there is a time and a place (well maybe not a place it can be anywhere) for fighting...to me the more i learn the more i dont want to use it, but i have had to and i will again im sure....but spirit in KF comes 1st...i hope im not the only one here that believes that.>
Post: zefff:
Oh boy, Zed mate it was me who made the comment about "shaming", not you. You only insinuated as much so Im afraid that what was "confermed" [sic was more than you might have first imagined.
If I shame my Sifu it is because I think freely and question him constantly. I am sorry if this is beneath your standard but he has taught me that any combat situation is like a conversation or debate with questions asked and answered. If you cant answer a question what happens next? If I want to prepare for a debate I want to be as well-informed as possible, yes or no?
But who cares anyway because you airing your judgements is only another of the implements you use to reaffirm your good moral fortifications. Me being 'bad' makes you feel better about youself it seems. Even you living to please others makes you feel like a good person and thus better than those who dont live like you. Everything you do is selfish! Moral high ground is like a drug for you and I gave you a fix. :lol:
I can assume all this because you did not answer my questions pointedly. Now if I equate this to combat, imagine I assume certain things as fact and then when I find myself in a real situation I try to rely on the assumption - what happens? We dont really know because we have never gained any basic truth or science from the practice. We are gambling on assumptions? I dont like to gamble thats why I ask! So I can understand and so have a good knowledge of my own capabilities. I dont do groundwork so I would never gamble on the hidden meanings coming out all of a sudden when Im on my back with someone like Bushi on top.
You talk about old school training, what is that? How do you know what or how I train? All I talked about was how I ask questions. Does that all of a sudden make me some ill-mannered, bad boy? I didnt assume anything of you, I asked questions and if you re-read you'll see I actually talked about "my CMA" when I mentioned bullshit, not yours. What is old-school? What exactly do you mean? How do you want to "change my mind"? Do you want me to stop asking questions, stop cursing, help my Sifu more and believe that the hidden meanings in my forms will make me more powerful?
If you read back I'd hope you would see I never wanted to change your mind or make you do anything. I just wanted to ask how you can make something work when you dont actually know it?
peace>
Post: zed:
when are you going to hunt for ralph machio again? ;)
really, you do what you want . i know what works for me...there is a difference between questioning your sifu, and questioning him. old school means outside with the elements, no matter the weather, practicing on the art of KF and not the additude of a bad movie thug. moral fix? you sound like some christian basher, which doesnt bother me cause im not christian....if the only reason you learned MA is to walk around with your chest puffed out, and act all bad on these forums...more power to you....im happy for you. my sifu warned us of people like you when i 1st started training, there are no other KF schools around but there are karate and kenpo and others around, and i see the lower level students with a chip on their shoulders calling out my kwoons (my meaning the school i attend, not my school i am far from being about to have a school i only help teach some forms to help my sifu) lower level students. it has always gone on and im sure always will...but just because i dont like it (as im sure you dont? or many others on this site...i hope.) doesnt mean im a moralist...(far from it sad to say, my life is faaaaaar from perfect) take this for what it is.....but it works for me, and yes ask question. and stop reading so deep into what people say sometimes things are not as deep as you think.....or maybe thats just me...... d'oh!>
Post: zefff:
Zed,
is it me who has been presumptious? I will read back the thread and think about it, but first I'll answer you. Then maybe come back and apologise if I feel I am wrong.
1) Who is Ralph Machio? I have no idea what you are talking about there. Is this some more morally-based sarcasm?
2) Questioning my Sifu? What are you talking about? Are you saying I dont trust what my Sifu is teaching me? Surely common sense would have me leave and find a better suited teacher if that was the case. What would be the point of me learning shit that I cant make work? That is delusion. At my kwoon if the syllabus is questioned, a higher rank student will prove it. Whats the problem with that? IMHO if you arent constantly proving your techniques then its like having an old sword that never gets polished. You cant claim the edge is keen if you havent unsheathed it to see the condition can you?
3) I do practice outside but I practice self improvement via MA, not just KF alone. My Sifu teaches us that Wing Chun is an instrument of self improvement not that we are instruments for the improvement of the School of Wing Chun.
I am not a thug, I dont have the mean streak. I dont puff my chest out because I dont feel a need to impress my social status on others. If anything, in real life I shy away from scrabbling for acceptance or dominance, although I do recognise some of my insecurities and desires.
4) I am not a Christian basher. Why are you mentioning religion? I am bashing you now for trying to make me out as a thug simply because I questioned your information. You are the basher! You are the one who labels me and tries to rubbish my persona! Since your first claim I havent read anything regarding examples of groundfighting from you. You have not proved your point at all. All you've done to defend your claim is attack my character. Ludicrous! How am I acting "all bad" on these forums?
5) "my sifu warned us of people like you when i 1st started training..."
Are you for real? People like me? I tell you what, just ignore me from now on. Pretend I dont exist. Im just some low level thug kid with a chip.
6)"...stop reading so deep into what people say sometimes things are not as deep as you think..."
Is that your way of saying - By some groundwork, I meant things like a hip toss, knee on chest and punch to face? If thats what you meant then yes I agree with you! Hows that? :lol:>
Post: zed:
1) yeah right, youre american right? around what age...(just so i have an idea not bashing age or lack of, has nothing to do with post)
2) no i wasnt, just said that if you have been with your sifu for a while you should have some trust in what he says, to a point, he should know you by now and have an idea of what you can and cannot do...give him more credit. he is a teacher......and im sure he is very good, never said he wasnt.
3) no need to type this we agree 100% on this.
4) maybe i went to far on this point, but i was a little ticked, all i was saying is that people dont like being talked down to, and maybe i took it the wrong was or too far, but attacking someones morals or lack of has no place, so you can have that one.
5)people like you, ok maybe again went too far, but not that far...i came in here and commented on something that i thought should be said and might be helpful not like i was stateing a fact, and you comenced to attack like a child, and although i am american, i dislike the way SOME (not all) of the younger generation of americans treat this art....im sure you agree ....maybe you feel the same and lets just end it...if not i guess you will reply with something. we'll see.
6) it was never on combat alone, not the way you are putting it now...all i said was that alot of the time your teacher might give you some room to figure things out and see how you do...because im sure we all agree there is a lot to be taught and learned and to stop every 5 secends to answer someones question.....you would never learn....(but i guess that really depends on class size and how many instructors you have.....the classes i goto are very small) so we can learn i bit faster than the really big schools which also helps in sparring. but you know. in the long run , it doesnt really matter.
i never said anything matter of factly in the 1st post i made, how you turned it into this i dont know, maybe i said some things that changed the subject, maybe you did.....but here it is now take it for what it is.....you go ahead and have the last word on it. ill read you comment and leave it alone....i have to go practice ;)>
Post: zefff:
1) oh dear. For what its worth I am a 30 year old Englishman. Now you can erase that mental image of me as a wannabe jock with a 'tude and replace it with one of a stiff-lipped, tea sipper in a pin stripe suit. :roll:
2) I trust my Sifu to teach me well but I cant just nod and punch the air 1-2-1-2! I got to try the stuff out, understand what makes it work and why! Cant you understand what Im saying? You are coming across as a bonkers nut man! Seriously, you are cracking me up here! :lol:
3) so you must agree that to improve, we must look at ourselves to identify the flaws before trying to remove them? You agree that we cant just go ahead saying "yeah, I dont know what Im doing but boy it sure does feel great!"
4) Do you feel better now? :lol:
5) :lol: If you dont always state facts to the best of your knowledge and sometimes throw in red herrings, maybe you should put a disclaimer in your sig or something to help people like me.
6) You are rambling but your right, it doesnt really matter.
I know I have been abhrasive but the reason is because I clicked the link to possibly learn something and I felt your approximations were misleading. Maybe if you had said:-
"Is it possible that every single KF style has some sort of ground fighting involved...?"
I would have sat back and enjoyed your involvement and you may have gotten more information and discussion from others who know more about the subject instead of my harrasment. You say you didnt state a fact but IMO your post implied that you had investigated and made a finding. Im sorry but if you have information I will wrestle it from you if I want it. If you dont want to share dont come to a place like this whose sole purpose is the giving and recieving of insight. Please note that although I havent been nice, all I ever wanted was information from you. If you dont know the answer, dont post. If you want to know the answer, ask!
This thread might be useless to you, I dont know, and yes its way off topic but it has been useful to me. Thanks Zed! I now know who Ralph Machio is! :lol:
peace>
Post: TKDman:
FWIW, I can see Zefff's point. What is the point of showing a student how to do something but not how to apply it? That would seem to be the case if a KF sifu shows his student how to do a groundfighting technique but doesn't explain that that is what it is. I fail to see where zed's rightous indignation comes from.>
Post: zed:
i would like to give you all some advice i learned when i was a child long ago....i think it applys to most of the post on this forum................it goes to most all of you................."what a maroon" thank you.....goodbye this site sucks ass lol ;)...............i came here to maybe pick some stuff up but all i see is kids internet bashing....................kids uhg>
Post: zefff:
Hey your back! Great advice there! May I suggest the shoutbox? Its on the left. You'll fit right in.
You pissed me off for a second but now I realise you actually really are of low intelligence. I was nicer to you in my last post but you didnt read any of it. As I said before you are the one bashing, you are the childish one and you are the one who hasnt offered anything useful.
I suggest you stop KF practice and take a look at yourself long and hard. Is it possible that you are always belittling other people because you have never acheived the goals you have set for yourself or never been respected as much as you'd like in your life? I get the impression you dont like yourself much. If you applied some wisdom you could change that and be content or at least be striving/shedding/realising/discovering. Imagine that!>
Post: Bushi:
I wouldn't go to McDonald's to get a fine steak, so why go to a system that has a little GF? Take BJJ, a ground based JJJ, or Judo.
Quit trying to force square pegs through round holes. Geez.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Bushi Quit trying to force square pegs through round holes. Geez.[/quote
But it makes the ladies go crazy. Though, it can be a pain in the ass to sand down the corners so you don't tear any flesh.>
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