Chinese Warrior Texts
Original Poster: dojutsu
Forum: Kung Fu Styles, Chinese Martial Arts
Posted On: 22-12-2005, 08:16
Orginal Post: dojutsu: Does anyone know of any Chinese books similar to the Japanese "warrior books" Hakagure and Go Rin No Sho?Like, written by chinese warriors or fighters?Not straight kung fu books but like... fighting philosophy books. you know what i mean lol?
oh and NOT includin the art of war
Post: BLACK PANTA:
I have not yet come accross book like that. That doesn't mean that they are not out there. But the Japanese were much more maticulous(sp?) than the Chinese when it came to documentation.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
oh yeah other that Art of War. I have more found stories of great KF artists like General Kwan, Kei Ying, and Fei Hong, Bruce Lee, etc etc. I think you can count the Tao of JKD as a "warrior" book.>
Post: dojutsu:
do you know of any books with stories General Kwang, Fei Hong and Kei ying? Or did you just google them when you heard their names :D>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
The Chinese are a bit more romantic about their martial arts than the Japanese. If you want stories about martial artists then read ?Three Kingdoms? or ?Bandits of the Marshes? (that?s not the actual title of the Marshes story. I just don?t remember the exact title). Also, Zhugei Liang wrote his own version of the ?Art of War? which is an interesting read. ?Tao of Jeet Kune Do? is also pretty cool, though I?m not the biggest fan of that style.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=dojutsu do you know of any books with stories General Kwang, Fei Hong and Kei ying? Or did you just google them when you heard their names :D[/quote
you know what man, I've only found stuff about them online :D
Wushu, what don't you like about JKD?>
Post: nbotary:
Probably the fact that our Sifu is not a big fan of Bruce Lee!!! :wink: :lol:>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=nbotary Probably the fact that our Sifu is not a big fan of Bruce Lee!!! :wink: :lol:[/quote
Why does your Sify dislike Bruce Lee? no disrespect intended, but most of the time it for bull shit reasons, that have absolutely no merit. That a big problem I have with Most Sifus.>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
As I understand it, Wing Chun is a very systematic martial art. That is, it has a hierarchy of forms which a student learns. Bruce Lee, as I understand, never truly mastered the Wing Chun system; he did not learn everything that Wing Chun had to teach him (on account of him moving to the United States). Thus he found many gaps in his martial arts system, gaps that he later filled with other martial arts which later became Jeet Kune Do.
This background in mind brings me to my biggest gripe with Lee: How he advertised Gongfu as a lacking martial art. Gongfu, in my opinion, is one of the, if not the most, complete martial art system. I believe this because it trains every aspect of combat. Stand up, kicking, grappling, wrestling, join manipulation, pressure points, chi circulation, fa jing, all are part of Gongfu (note: my definition of Gongfu includes Taiji, Swai Jow [misspelled, sorry , Shaolin, and the many other traditional styles). JKD, as I see it, is a martial art system that was born out of a lack of understanding for Lee?s original martial style. It?s his attempt to fill in the gaps and in doing so he claimed to create a new martial art. Hardly new if every principle in it already existed.
Now please don?t think that I hate Bruce Lee. I have tremendous respect for him. Indeed he was a martial artist who truly exemplified the martial spirit (well, maybe with a bit too much ego). I just don?t believe JKD, or Lee?s skill for that matter, is all it?s cracked up to be.
Hope that answers your question.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
well the flaw in your resoning starts with JKD is not a style, it's not even really concidered a Martial Art (per say). It's a concept. Use what is useful TO YOU and do away with the rest. That was Bruce's philosophy. TMK Bruce never really said anything negative about Kung Fu. Infact he called his style of Jun Fan Kung Fu. (wich alot of people mistake for JKD) There is soo much Wing Chun in JKD btw.
I would say stop listening to what your Sifu has to say about another martial artist. Only listen to what he teaches you. There is alot of jealousy in the CMA circles against Bruce Lee. There were also a lot of lies spread. You doubt Bruce's skills, I think you should take that back. He has beaten many a skilled martial artists, not just for tv. His skill in WC was much more than you give him credit for. He had a lot more skill than you can imagine.
BTW if you ask anyone on this site. I am a die hard Kung Fu guy. I too believe that KF covers all ranges of fighting. However you have to train in those ranges to know them.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
sorry I was soo vague and abrupt, still at work so have to be quick.>
Post: Hengest:
I agree with Panta. Form your own opinions, but, for Chrissakes, make sure they're educated ones. I get a little sick of people pulling opinions out of their arses.
I'd also have to take issue with your statement re kung fu's "completeness". Seeing as "kung fu" or "gong fu" is not a single style but a generic term for all traditional Chinese martial arts, this is a bit of a daft statement. You'd laugh in my face if I said "'Japanese martial arts' is the most complete system in the world", yet that's essentially what you're telling me.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=Hengest
I'd also have to take issue with your statement re kung fu's "completeness". Seeing as "kung fu" or "gong fu" is not a single style but a generic term for all traditional Chinese martial arts, this is a bit of a daft statement. You'd laugh in my face if I said "'Japanese martial arts' is the most complete system in the world", yet that's essentially what you're telling me.[/quote
LOL Heng. I met this dude from Trinidad and he said he trained before. When I asked what he trained in the said "Mahshal Ahts AND Judo". I nearly bust out laughing at him. But I held it, he had a gold tooth, now you don't wanna mess with someone with a gold tooth....trust me.
But yeah Kung Fu is a generic term. Alot of us use it wrongly. What I wanted to say but didn't have time, was that yes, Kung Fu does cover all ranges and is complete, but no one style is totally complete.
Wushu
You imply that if he had studied WC more he would have found that there were no gaps? Have you studied WC to know for a fact there are no gaps.
If you think that WC has no gaps or short commings then my friend you are sorely mistaken. The different styles of KF came about by disceting a certain style, finding the weakness and training/evolving to over come that weakness.
Hengest has some great advice, make/form your own opinions and make your own judgements. Dont spew what you've heard, or what others have told you. Do your own research, make sure that your opinions are justified and backed up. Don't make my friend Hengest mad by talking out your kake hole.>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
Everything I said about Lee comes from my own research (to be honest, what little there is. Great thing though is that I?m learning a great deal about him from Panta and Hengest). Nothing I?ve said on this topic comes from Sifu (if it did it would probably be more informed lol).
Panta, I didn?t know all that about JKD. As far as doubting his skills, well I never saw him in action (movies don?t count) so I cannot really say how good he was. From reading about him I can assume that he was very skilled, maybe even one of the best, just not as skilled as say Wang Zhurong, Wu Chengde, or Wang Ziping (all martial artists during Lee?s time).
To me all Chinese martial arts are Kung Fu. Because what is Kung Fu? It is time in energy, most often associated with the martial arts. The only difference between say Gongfu and Taiji is emphasis; that is Gongfu emphasizes the Yang while Taiji emphasizes the Yin.
Hengest, you may disagree with this, that?s fine. After all, if we agreed all the time life would be boring as hell. But please remember that I am likely a decade younger than you. I do my best to put a lot of thought into what I say. Am I wrong on occasion? Sure. That?s fine, especially sense the members of this forum (at least those who know their stuff) have far more experience in the martial arts than me. And that is why I like this forum, I get to talk with martial artists above my skill from many different styles. Also, I?m not just, ?pulling opinions out of [my ass .? But despite what I may say, you are more than welcome to think I am. As far as you telling me that the Japanese martial arts are one of the most complete systems in the world, well I wouldn?t laugh. I?d stop, think, and try and see where you are coming from (though looking back I think it was a bit foolish of me to mention the possibility of Chinese Martial Arts as the most comprehensive martial art system. I just really likes it is all ;) ). lol actually I might agree (what?s really better, Karate alone, or Karate with Iedo, Jujitsu, and Aikido?).
Well, that?s my two cents. Definitely been an enlightening topic for me.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=WushuPadawan001
Panta, I didn?t know all that about JKD. As far as doubting his skills, well I never saw him in action (movies don?t count) so I cannot really say how good he was. From reading about him I can assume that he was very skilled, maybe even one of the best, just not as skilled as say Wang Zhurong, Wu Chengde, or Wang Ziping (all martial artists during Lee?s time). [/quote
Not to be an ass..(really) but you said in your prev post that you dont think his skill is all it's cracked up to be.
Quote: The only difference between say Gongfu and Taiji is emphasis; that is Gongfu emphasizes the Yang while Taiji emphasizes the Yin.
Taiji is Kung Fu, it's a style of Kung Fu. Kung Fu isn't the Yang and Taiji the Yin. The philosophy of Ying Yan is in Taiji and all styles of Kung Fu. There is hard/soft, inner/exterior, spirit/physical, mind/matter, brute/grace. This is just a basic explanation of Yin Yang. My wife tries to beat Yin Yang into my head but my attention span is too low to listen. Especially when she trying to explain when I'm playing xbox. lol
Quote: As far as you telling me that the Japanese martial arts are one of the most complete systems in the world, well I wouldn?t laugh. I?d stop, think, and try and see where you are coming from (though looking back I think it was a bit foolish of me to mention the possibility of Chinese Martial Arts as the most comprehensive martial art system. I just really likes it is all ;) ). lol actually I might agree (what?s really better, Karate alone, or Karate with Iedo, Jujitsu, and Aikido?).
Bro he wasn't saying that he would bring the argument that JMAs are the most complete..He saying that when you say Kung Fu is the most complete is being very broad.
Well, that?s my two cents. Definitely been an enlightening topic for me.[/quote >
| < Prev | Next > |
|---|