Tai Chi Conditioning
Original Poster: dojutsu
Forum: Kung Fu Styles, Chinese Martial Arts
Posted On: 02-01-2006, 02:58
Orginal Post: dojutsu: Is there any practioners of Tai Chi (for combat) out there who knows if and how they condition the body to take blows? Iv looked at lots of stuff on the internet but have seen nothing on this subject. I have a mate who does some style of Praying Mantis Kung Fu, and they do loads of conditioning excersises, where they clash limbs and such repeatedly. And in his SPARE time he does the whole empty bottle/ stick rolling thing on his shins (and his forearms too i think).And the kind of blows this guy takes...
Or if you do any of the other internal styles of Kung Fu, information on their conditioning would be cool 8)
Post: WushuPadawan001:
I?d recommend that you do not spend time training to take a blow, but rather how to avoid one.
Then again, that really doesn't answer your question.>
Post: dojutsu:
nope lol!
but i get where your coming from, i have been thinkin about that myself but its a thing where, if your gonna get hit by a blow, then you want to be able to take it and carry on fighting, you know what i mean?Like i know for a fact that the few mates i have who do praying mantis can take a stupid amount of punishment, and when i spar with them (thai boxing, i havent started tai chi properly yet) they dodge a lot, and a blow that i do land, they take it... well.
i obviously am going to train evasive movement, but i doubt anyone alive wouldnt take a few blows in a fight. especially against multiple opponents (which is often the case nowadays). and THATS why i was looking into the conditioning in internal kung fu>
Post: dojutsu:
lol crap how do i get that first post deleted?>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
To be honest I don?t know much about conditioning to take blows; it is something I have never trained. But when I do get hit in a fight I take it as an almost perverse pleasure. That is, when I get hit I smile and keep going. lol I probably do this because I?m crazy as hell lol!!. If you?re going into a fist fight, go in KNOWING that you are going to get hit. Same with a knife fight, KNOW that you are going to get cut. Avoid getting hit of course, but don?t be surprise when you do.
Wow, another reply without answering the question. I?m getting good at this.>
Post: nbotary:
[quote=WushuPadawan001 But when I do get hit in a fight I take it as an almost perverse pleasure. That is, when I get hit I smile and keep going. lol I probably do this because I?m crazy as hell lol!!.[/quote You've been training with me and Bloodybirds too long!!! :wink: :twisted: :lol:
You're probably better off training the external to take blows and working on strengthening your chi that way. Once you start learning Tai Chi, you can learn to control your chi and move it at will. Combine that with the external body conditioning, and you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
anyone giving advice on Tai Chi conditioning, actually practice Tai chi? Or have practiced Tai Chi?>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
I?ve been doing Taiji for a couple years now. Can?t say that I can manipulate Chi quite yet, but I?m getting there lol!>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=WushuPadawan001 I?ve been doing Taiji for a couple years now. Can?t say that I can manipulate Chi quite yet, but I?m getting there lol![/quote
I thought you did wushu? But any case what style of Taiji do you train in?>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
Wushu is a sort of umbrella term for me. Literally it means ?Martial Arts? so when I say ?Wushu? I use it in the context of all Chinese Martial Arts. Thus I am a Padawan of the Chinese Martial Arts.
Anywho, I train in Contemporary Gongfu (what it commonly called Wushu), Classical Gongfu (aka Kung Fu), and Yang style Taiji (a la? taichiquan). Every now and then I like to dabble in other Martial Arts like TKD and such to keep myself from becoming to Chino-centric.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
Wushu nowadays is Kung Fu gymnastics. Classical Kung Fu (aka Kung Fu)? I have not heard of a style called Classical Kung Fu! As Hengest pointed out that is like saying I study classical Japanese Martial Arts. Yang Style Taiji? Wow, my wife studied Yang Style b4 she became pregnant? What is your lineage in Yang Style? Hek what is your lineage in "Classical Kung Fu"?>
Post: dojutsu:
hmm i see
well one thing is (yes i know this was asked before,but theres always new opinions) what do people think of the "rolling an empty bottle/ bar over shins and forearms to deaden nerves" method of conditioning?it seems dangerously unnatural to me, but i dont know of anything bad actually happening to anyone because of it!>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
Kung Fu gymnastics? Well?.yeah, it really is. But it?s fun!
You?re absolutely right, Classical Kung Fu is not a style! I dabble in Long Fist and White Crane mostly with a bit of Mantis here and there (one of these days I?ll jump into some Monkey and Drunken). Like I?ve said before, Kung Fu is Kung Fu, the only difference to me is emphasis, so when someone asks what kind style of the martial arts I train in I am usually intentionally vague. As far as you or Hengest saying that you study Classical Japanese Martial Arts?.that actually makes perfect sense to me lol. Oh well, it?s just a different way of looking at the Martial Arts.
Lineage huh? Bloodybirds is likely more familiar with the lineage of our teacher, but I?ll tell you what I can.
Classical Kung Fu and Taiji: Jeff Bolt who is the senior student of Yang Jing Ming
Wushu / Contemporary Kung Fu: Madam Wang Zhurong (daughter of Wang Ziping) and Shiaoping (sp?) (daughter of Wang Zhurong)
Dojutsu, sounds painful to me. Whatever you do, be careful.>
Post: nbotary:
Let me help clarify Wushu's "classical" definition:
Long Fist Kung Fu, White Crane Kung Fu and Yang Style Tai Chi under Sifu Jeff Bolt - senior student of Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming.
I would have to look up Dr. Yang's lineage on his web page or one of his books to give you his background.
Wushu, who are you getting Mantis, Monkey and Drunken from?>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
I said that one of these days I?d like to get some drunken and monkey :D not that I?ve trained in them before.
The mantis comes from Sha-Fu-Ien (sp?) which is a form made of Longfist and Mantis moves. I think it?s in Dr. Yang?s green Longfist book, but there are moves in the form that are irrefutably mantis.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Sifu Bolt teaches Yang style taiji from Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, the white crane and long fist come from Dr. Yang's teachers in Taiwan 40 years ago. Dr. Yang has written over 40 books on the subject. In Jeff's class, he teaches two basic mantis forms, one is Sha fu yen and the other is a Ba bo derivative from 7-Star Preying mantis. Jeff's taiji is combat oriented as well and he has developed a very good two-person taiji fighting set to develop the anti-gapping and reaction skills necessary besides of course stationary and moving push hands.
I trained under a legit Ying Jow master and a true Shaolin monk from Hong Kong and US. Our conditioning drills were extensive and excrutiating. I can go into detail if necessary.
One should be able to trace lineage, by Chinese martial arts tradition, going back at least three generations. It is one test of legitamacy to the outside world and provides insight to other schools as to one's background, skills, and heritage.
Wushu, my son is currently learning Shaolin monkey from Ricky, my Shaolin master, as well as the stuff in Jeff's class. My elder there also knows drunken as well as his mantis. The mantis that is taught in Jeff's is intermediate level bug!! It is used to attentuate the chin na stuff.
One other thing....Dr. Yang's and Jeff's chin na techniques are recognized by most Chinese Martial arts authorities as superior and well applied. But, most Chinese styles have some form of chin na embedded into their art. Usually, suia jiou (Chinese wrestling, I know I butchered the spelling), white crane, Ying Jow eagle claw, and preying mantis are acknowledged as the styles with very extensive chin na and grappling techniques.>
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