Wing Chun - It's doing my head in! (but i love it)
Original Poster: peajay
Forum: Kung Fu Styles, Chinese Martial Arts
Posted On: 21-09-2007, 15:06
Orginal Post: peajay: I must have had to many burgers in the past... :oops:
this Wing Chun I'm learning...
I have had - oh three weeks worth
(three sessions a week, 2 hrs/session - blimey 18 hrs!!! 8O )
The combinations of making the forms work as a defence, flowing into an attack, flowing into a block, flowing into a push...
I can do all the bits, but it's like fighting on mogadon - sooo veeeeryyy slow... :oops: :roll:
I'm sure I'll get better, and the forms and moves will click...
I know what I'm doing wrong, and I know where i need to get too... just my poor body can't keep up!!! :? :D
(remember - Relax - sink into your stance - Relax - think about the form - RELAX!!)
(this is fantastic for my son tho - one of the therapies for his DCD is to have a set of things to do, layered onto another set, layered onto another set - so Wing Chun which is forcing you to use both sides of your brain together, having complex actions, and chatting to your sparing partner - its just about perfect!!) :D
Post: zefff:
Great!
But keep in mind there are no blocks in Wing Chun, only parries. Maybe I am pedantic but that thinking helped me a lot to focus on the attacks rather than the defence.
I dont know if that makes sense but too many Wing Chun beginners focus on the defences when it is the attacks that allow you to win. When you think about the defences too much you actually complicate matters...although thay may seem awkward they are based of natural movements so try not to concern yourself with them too much right now. Correctness in your striking is more important than getting bogged down with contemplation of the parries.
Peace!>
Post: samurai6string:
Glad to hear it is working out for you two. I started going to jujutsu classes with my dad around 12 or 13, I'm 26 now and I can say those were some of the best times we had together. Doing stuff in class, preparing for belt tests together outside of class. Great father/son bonding time, IMHO. Hope all keeps going well for the both of you. :D>
Post: peajay:
:D
thanks guys!
yeah... I know what you mean Zefff... all moves in Wing Chun seem actually to be strikes... the principle of always keeping the motion and pressure forward helps... :D What is difficult is relaxing... (conditioned that fighting involves tension, agrression... grrrr - But no, I need to relax, structure is key, relax). That and turning off the concience... if i think too much about the next move, its already been parried...
(so, closing my eyes, practice and for gawd sake RELAX!!! :roll: )
6string.. my son is 12... we are both enjoying it... so yeah, its good bonding stuff... :D>
Post: dscott:
Just keep with it and you'll find that, all of a sudden, you're doing things without even thinking about them.>
Post: Gazelle:
How you make me long for the year ago when i was actually learning something in martial arts, and when i was doing it...i'm seriously starting to hate this side of mine.>
Post: Stazzy:
Gazelle, it's not too late to start up again. Hit up the gym and show them how a hardcore Brit like yourself drops them 'bows. I'd walk you over myself, but I can't move my legs at the moment. :x>
Post: Bloodybirds:
I can attest to the father/son special times! My first son from my Filipina ex wife is now 19 in NJ but when he was 3-7 he trained with me under one of my three masters in Dallas. By the time he was 6 my Shaolin master had sawed the spear in half for him, and he became quite good with that and the initial crane and eagle movements. Currently, my 10 year old from my second ex wife here in Houston has trained with me the last two years with Sifu Jeff Bolt and learned a monkey form from my Shaolin master as well as a fan form, two long fist forms, and fighting apps as well as grinning whenever we train together. As long as it is fun for him, I will not force him to compete like I did for a long time. I want him to pick up the confidence, self discipline, and joy I have received from it over the last 29 years.
My Ying Jow master once told me that to learn the true movements of breathing and moving, to work out with or watch children....martial arts is just an adult attempt to get back to the child state of purity in thought and in movement....the father becomes the son becomes the father, even in the martial arts!>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=Stazzy Gazelle, it's not too late to start up again. Hit up the gym and show them how a hardcore Brit like yourself drops them 'bows. I'd walk you over myself, but I can't move my legs at the moment. :x[/quote
lol. What have you done to your legs? And, walking me over to the gym would be quite a feat from Houston:).lol
Anyway, i can't...well, i can, but the effect on whatever i've done to my side won't be too good. It plays up just from walking sometimes, and from carrying my stuff back from the supermarket, infact, i'm sure it has gotten more sensitive to such things...i did at one point start doing very careful kicks and easy, light punches on a couple of occassions, and it seemed to be able to deal with it for a short time, but, not enough to start training again, and, since it seems to be more sensitive now, i haven't done anymore. The physio appointments hasn't really done anything, though, i thought initially it was starting to get better. She recommended i book another doctors appointment, incase it wasn't muscular.>
Post: Stazzy:
Check out the Thai martial arts section for more info on my legs. :wink:>
Post: peajay:
[quote=Bloodybirds ...I will not force him to compete like I did for a long time. I want him to pick up the confidence, self discipline, and joy I have received from it over the last 29 years... [/quote
No competition to be entered into here! 8O
However, as he moves into his teen years, having the confidence that if he gets into a scrape, for those occasions when running away like a gazelle wont get him out of trouble, its good to think he'll be able to look after himself.
The confidence and self discipline will be good for him. :D>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote="peajaywhen running away like a gazelle wont[/quote
Are you trying to imply something? :D lol>
Post: peajay:
[quote=Gazelle [quote="peajay when running away like a gazelle wont/quote
Are you trying to imply something? :D lol[/quote
8O :wink:
Given your ranking on here?
I'm not that brave :wink: LOL
Anyway... I have not seen you running away, so not sure what you'd look like :P
I have slightly bruised knuckles here at the moment :oops: (obviously need to work on my technique still)
Quite a few of our last few sessions have included working on striking - hitting target pads (not your sparing partner)... Standing still, advancing across room, or pivoting... After some more coaching, last time I got into the feel of it... Blimey!! You can develop a lot of power can't you!!!>
Post: zefff:
Bruised knuckles are good! If the skin were torn badly that shows you might not be hitting the pads directly and allowing some of the force in the strike to escape as your knuckle slides along the target surface. Your knuckles arent torn so that is good for now.
Remember to always analyse skeletal alignment in your whole body as well as the striking arm. And retract the arm as quickly as you pushed it out in the first place.
Peace
P.S. the ranks on here dont mean anything besides how prolific a poster you are.>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=zefff P.S. the ranks on here dont mean anything besides how prolific a poster you are.[/quote
Somewhat unfortunately, he is right:)
[quote=peajay Anyway... I have not seen you running away, so not sure what you'd look like [/quote
Sorry mate, but i'm going to have to keep you guessing on that one:)>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Peajay, now try taking all of that and using a CMA concept called fa jing....express your power from your feet through your hip/waist through your shoulder to the end of your arm....now that's the ticket and negates strength/weight issues to a great extent...now you are expressing through total body weight rather than just an arm's power. The first time you do something like this right, you are right, it is quite amazing and surprising! Those old bastards knew something....LOL!! As far as your knuckles, like Zefff said, focus squarely on the pad with the entirety of the fist and do not skate off to the side...make sure your partner is holding it correctly and firmly. Also, hit the pad with an open hand in a backfist strike...do both closed fist and open hand and you will develop power and speed!>
Post: peajay:
[quote=zefff P.S. the ranks on here dont mean anything besides how prolific a poster you are.[/quote
[quote=Gazelle [Somewhat unfortunately, he is right:)
Sorry mate, but i'm going to have to keep you guessing on that one:)[/quote
Yeah I know that (I was aiming for ironic, but missed and hit gullible instead) :roll: :D
[quote=Bloodybirds ....express your power from your feet through your hip/waist through your shoulder to the end of your arm....now that's the ticket and negates strength/weight issues to a great extent...now you are expressing through total body weight rather than just an arm's power.[/quote
Yes... I was pleasantly surprised. This "soft, internal" style doesn't half pack a load of oomph (when you do it right :D )!
Worked on meeting punches with tan sau and fook sau last night... so... red fore-arms all round (lol I'm even remembering the names! I must be getting somewhere)>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote="peajayYeah I know that (I was aiming for ironic, but missed and hit gullible instead) :roll: :D [/quote
lol. I got that:)>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Peejay, try Three star blocking with a partner or against a tree for about 30 minutes (hitting three parts of the forearm) and you will enjoy the redness and especially how it builds the forearms for maximum impact..just make sure you have good jow medicine afterwards....LOL!>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=Bloodybirds Peejay, try Three star blocking with a partner or against a tree for about 30 minutes (hitting three parts of the forearm) and you will enjoy the redness and especially how it builds the forearms for maximum impact..just make sure you have good jow medicine afterwards....LOL![/quote
I haven't been following this thread much, but this is more of a Shaolin Practice than WC no? WC is more about sensitivity, where as this drill (if it's the one I'm thinking of) is meant to numb/strengthen the forearm no?>
Post: Bloodybirds:
BP is right....whoops, ignore those last comments Peejay..forgot this was a wing chun forum..jeez! I should have said, chi sao is an invaluable part of this art so really practice the sensitivity and reaction drills your teacher is showing you. Also, if your teacher is good at it or to take a complementary thing, also find someone really good at push hands...I would assume the sensitivity is complementary as well.
Thanks BP.....what I suggested would only make your arms insensitive to pain....LOL!>
Post: Gazelle:
The image of me doing that to a tree on campus is somewhat entertaining...or more precisely the reactions it mighy invoke :D>
Post: Bloodybirds:
It might kill your dating prospects....but the rugby players on campus might find it sexy..... 8)>
Post: Gazelle:
Hmmm...i sort of promised someone i'd look out for a geologist, got any tips for pulling them?lol.
No, i'm in no hurry. I rather like being solo. Still rather like to here your answer:)>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Take a geologist to a rock and roll joint or pub in London.....tell him you really dig him......tell him you want to go climbing......comment on his stalagnites....you get the pic!! :P>
Post: peajay:
[quote=Gazelle Hmmm...i sort of promised someone i'd look out for a geologist, got any tips for pulling them?lol.
No, i'm in no hurry. I rather like being solo. Still rather like to here your answer:)[/quote
Looking like a tender bit of metamorphic limestone? Or is that just for Sgt Detritus??? :lol:
Thanks all for the help (tho... don't take it personally Bb... I may give the beating up local trees a miss :wink: )...
Sensitivity is, as you say, the absolute key. Reading if there is energy left in the block/punch, then being able to role with it (darn now I've got that tune in my head :evil: )...
Not advance enough for Chi Sao - I'd get beaten every time!!! :oops:
but practicing...>
Post: Gazelle:
Chi Sao?
lol. Can you imagine it? The guy would have to have a rather weird sense of humour to find it amusing himself, but, my, would it be amusing to do to begin with!>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=Bloodybirds BP is right....whoops, ignore those last comments Peejay..forgot this was a wing chun forum..jeez! I should have said, chi sao is an invaluable part of this art so really practice the sensitivity and reaction drills your teacher is showing you. Also, if your teacher is good at it or to take a complementary thing, also find someone really good at push hands...I would assume the sensitivity is complementary as well.
Thanks BP.....what I suggested would only make your arms insensitive to pain....LOL![/quote
Although onlookers may find it similar, the concept of push hands and chi sao are different.
I worked on a little push hands with a Tai Chi pract. and I had a lot of trouble with him, however when we switched up to Chi Sao, he had problems with it. My best advice is to focus on what you do right now, and dont worry about anything else. Get good at what you want to get good at. IMO Chi Sao is fantastic on it's own, the concept can be used not only with your arms but your whole body. Getting good at chi sao can and will take a lot of years. You dont really want to confuse yourself by learning Push Hands at the same time IMNSHO.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
BP, have done push hands, along with my tai chi and kung fu for about 9 of my many years now, but only seen chi sao, can you or someone maybe describe some of the differences you noted. That would be interesting, since both depend upon great sensitivity and detection.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
it's hard for me to explain Chi Sao, to put it in KF terms it's like finding the snake. In the exercise your whole arm is involved (as well as your core ofcourse). It's for trapping, closing, opening. I believe Zeff would better explain it. I'm not very good at Chi Sao to begin with. What came to me just now is that Chi Sao is VERY circular, and you dont want to lose contact with your partner's arm.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
In your last sentence, as far as being circular and not losing contact, I then find great similarity with push hands...but, in push hands the finger tips are the main sensory perceptors, is that different in chi sao Zefff or BP?>
Post: bamboo:
I'll take a stab as I have private WC coach that practices once a week at my place. The very limited chi sau I have done involves the forearms and lots of rooting rather than finger tips. Although quite circular, the straight spiral comes into effect quite abit.
Just my 2 cents.
-bamboo>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=bamboo I'll take a stab as I have private WC coach that practices once a week at my place. The very limited chi sau I have done involves the forearms and lots of rooting rather than finger tips. Although quite circular, the straight spiral comes into effect quite abit.
Just my 2 cents.
-bamboo[/quote
right on bro.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=Bloodybirds With push hands, the root goes from foot to waist to shoulders expressed through the hands expressing as either silk reeling and/or fa jing. In wing chun, the way you describe, Bamboo, does the root come from the same place. Also, since most I have seen is modified, how does wing chun combine its footwork with doing chi sao and maintaining the center line? Just curious, maybe too deep here....LOL! Sorry, ya got me inquisitive now!![/quote
Always disrupt your partners centre and attack off his centre. Even while moving. Mostly it's done from a WC version of horse stance. The shaolin exercise of Chi Sao (at least the one I used to practice) we would transition thru different stances, to learn how to transition while in combat. Really and truly for me to explain it properly I would have to show, however maybe others are more apt to explain it. Or you could do one better and look on you tube and see the differences yourself. :wink:>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Thanks BP....amazing what is on youtube and myspace!>
Post: zefff:
There are many, many differing Wing Chun schools with differing forms and practices, not just all Ip Man, Leung Ting or whatever. Some are not famous at all and Ive seen some forms where I see similarities but I scratch my head at why they might be doing certain things. My Sifu practices some Tai Chi in his own time (I dont know what) he has shown us some forms and some practices (I forgot quickly because I wasnt interested :lol:) but no push hands. Fa jing is an integral part of our system though.
At my school we do many conditioning drills including the three star blocking. It doesnt seem to affect sensitivity IMO because when we are in close range with contact, although the arms are in contact, the effects of the opponents intentions are felt by the whole body, not just the arms. But at this stage (of the game) I am more concerned with putting him on the back foot or limiting his options rather than waiting to accept his attacks.
IMHO 'pretty chi sau' with complimentary (synchronised) attack, counter attack sequences is a comfort to a fool. It is a stage we have to travel through because we have to learn the words that make up a sentance then piece them together to make conversation (as Sifu puts it), but higher level chi sau is quite ugly looking with constant distruptions of timing, tempo and balance going on all the time. I've never been a chi sau technician but I know this from playing with my seniors. It also gets interesting (painful :lol: ) when you introduce chi gerk, followed by shuai jiao and chin na concepts. Not all Wing Chun schools will work like this BTW most may only offer Siu lim tao, Chum kiu, Bil jee, Muk yan jong, Baat cham do and the 6 and 1/2 point pole (which I cant remember :oops: ).
Another point is the focus of chi sau can change. Meaning, one time I can concentrate on attacking and defending the centre. Another time I can focus on my traps and enticements or another time I can focus on distrupting certain parts of the opponents structures or just chillout and develop our feelings.
Ultimately, the begining of chi sau practice is to develop good involuntary and voluntary reactions, the intermediate phase is to manipulate the involuntary and voluntary reactions of others...I dont know the higher level because I am not there and no one will tell me! :lol:>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Thanks Zefff. The two wing chun people I have seen in person, Augustine Fong and Benny Meng, are incredible with their bridging movement and I see what you mean about the jerky movements at a higher level. It is very interesting!!>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=BLACK PANTA it's hard for me to explain Chi Sao, to put it in KF terms it's like finding the snake. In the exercise your whole arm is involved (as well as your core ofcourse). It's for trapping, closing, opening. I believe Zeff would better explain it. I'm not very good at Chi Sao to begin with. What came to me just now is that Chi Sao is VERY circular, and you dont want to lose contact with your partner's arm.[/quote
That sounds a little bit like what they did at the Tai Chi class that i went to twice, but we just stayed in a single stance called dragon stance until someone lost their balance. They called it 'sticky hands', and, i found that it was far from being difficult...which is why i questioned if i was doing it right. You would think someone who had been doing it for a couple of years would have been better than someone who had just started...apparently not (i know some people just find things difficult and such, but, still).
OK, what's 'silk reeling', 'Fa Jing' (i know i've heard that one before), and, the other half a dozen names Zefff chanted off?lol.
Wing Chun sounds interesting...might have to give it ago at some stage, i wonder if there is a place round here that does it...>
Post: Gazelle:
What's Wing Tsun?
Below is what has been posted on the site, if anyone knows anything of it, i would be grateful to hear your take on it.
What is WingTsun?
The WT system is an ancient form of Kung Fu based on Taoist philosophy. It is designed to create a state of mental and physical excellence, allowing one to move in harmony with an opponents strength.
Adaptable
Its principles being flexible and peaceful, WT has adapted to the modern environment and to the needs of its practitioners without losing the depth of knowledge which has been evolved over thousands of years.
Effective
WT is so effective that it has been adopted by police forces in 57 countries around the world, including famous elite police units such as the FBI, RAID, NOKS, SEK and GSG-9. The WT organisation of Great Britain is also an affiliated member of the police federation.
Scientific
WT optimises the brain?s decision making and information processing to allow fluid response in a crisis situation. This is combined with an advanced understanding of body geometry and dynamics, allowing the attackers force to be evaded.
Practical
In resolving the issues of crisis response, WT teaches students to use their bodies and brains in completely different ways. The result of this is to promote a multitude of skills and strategies which are frequently used in normal life, not just in the rare occasions of actual combat.
Complete
WT incorporates advanced learning theories, cognitive analysis, ancient Chinese health strategies, and the latest developments in sports and medical science.
WT is therefore the most advanced system for developing body and mind together.
I>
Post: peajay:
Quoting: Gazelle;47764 What's Wing Tsun?
Ok...
not in any way an authority (as can be seen from the start of this thread!!!)
But... WT seems to be a variant of WC. The WT spelling seems to come because the style founder Leung Ting wanted to differentiate WT from WC as the styles are taught in very different ways.
However, saying all of that, I think it's a marketing ploy myself - looking at WT principles - they seem darn well close to what I thought WC principles are. The descriptions I have looked at looks like they have "process-ised" the principles. (I may be wrong)
I can say that my school looks at teaching principles. The form isn't a way to act, your not learning a Kata as in Karate, nor is it a stylised fight sequence. What you're learning is principles, which you then use apply as needed. So, the form is muscle memory training. when you do the movements it's to teach your subconscious the principles, not a set block, punch or move...
This is probably true of WT too actually... but I thought I'd stuff it in anyway... one of the more experienced WC people on here can agree or correct me (please - there is no such thing as a stupid question - only stupid answers) ;)>
Post: bamboo:
WC vs WT = politics and ego.>
Post: zefff:
Wing Tsun is the same as Wing Chun.
When written in Chinese the characters are the same, its just the transliteration that differs - more importantly, Leung Ting is a Yip Man disciple. Maybe the spelling comes from Leung Tings pronounciation as he does seem to have an odd accent (when speaking English of course).>
Post: Gazelle:
Thank you.
Bamboo - politics and ego?>
Post: zefff:
Leung Ting claimed to be the last 'closed door' student of Grand Master Yip Man (the guy who brought various Wing Chun practices together and created a unified system of Wing Chun that was based on scientific fact and tested continually with his own experiences in Police force etc and later, with the help of renowned students like Wong Shun Leung). Althought Leung was a student of Yip man, it is debated as to wether he was a closed door or first generation student. He apparently chose to spell his art oddly (in English) to differentiate it from all other Wing Chun on the international scene.>
Post: peajay:
Been a while since I posted to this thread! :roll:
I have now got all of Siu Lim Tao under my belt...
Not that I'm claiming to be the most elegant or profiscient in it... but I know the form and run through it at the beginning of each training session.
(often getting almost all the way through and thinking - hang on, I missed the Bong Sau bit again)
Getting my brain fried by starting Chi Sau... I must try and disconnect what my brain is saying to what my arms are doing! When I look away and let my arms look afterthemselves, I get so much more co-ordinated!!!>
Post: dscott:
I just started Chi Sau again last week and it was making me go crazy. I couldn't concentrate on both arms at once. So I was trying to work on my right arm and my left would go to shit and vice versa.>
Post: zefff:
Forget all that, dont worry about it. Concentrate on your attacking abilities over the defensive stuff.
At the end of the day its all about punching a man in his face.>
Post: The BadBoy:
It's about punching and not getting hit. i feel too many gyms concentrate on the attacking part without giving the student a good solid struture from which to deliver his strikes. Hitting is good but not if you leave yourself open to easy counters. Now I wont get started on how wing chun fits into the scheme of things. You all know my feelings on that one.>
Post: zefff:
Quoting: The BadBoy;49483 It's about punching and not getting hit.
Of course all MA striking strategies are about hitting while not getting hit but you have to accept you are gonna get hit sometime so you better be able to maximise your strikes to make the most of your chance.
Quoting: The BadBoy;49483 i feel too many gyms concentrate on the attacking part without giving the student a good solid struture from which to deliver his strikes.
Maybe you misread into my post but the way I 'concentrate on attacking' is to focus on the basic structure, mechanics and dynamics of my entire body. If I focused on the fist or arm alone that would be wrong IMHO but I didnt say they should do that. To focus on striking IS to focus on the whole body and how you apply it to a target.
I know you know that already but I want you to know I know it too. :)
Quoting: The BadBoy;49483 Hitting is good but not if you leave yourself open to easy counters. Now I wont get started on how wing chun fits into the scheme of things. You all know my feelings on that one.
Yes hitting is good thats why I say start with it - then build on that by moving unto dealing with strategies like counters. If you start off being concerned with more complex techniques like counters you will find it hard to become the aggressive type...which we all need sometime.
I think the wider problem with WC is that many schools holds onto this robotic, stiff movement and when combined with poor training methods and no sparring this produces weird fantasy warriors.
I think the answer is a combination of more gruelling training and conditioning, more focus on actual aggressive techniques rather than passive, responsive ones. More alive padwork, more duelistic sparring and more animal day type sparring and pressure testing....same as any art really.
Ive said it before too but I also think WC attracts people who are actually afraid of fighting and want to defend themselves. The thing is they dont realise that to effectively, physically defend yourself you need to actually fight!
I think a lot of these people have gotten through the system over the years and are now teaching others like themselves so what we have is a load of people in a system who actually cannot perform as well as they might like to think because they are deep down, afraid and fearful of fighting. Regardless of wether you can or cannot utilise your most dangerous weapons in a sparring match you still need to develop a relationship with fear and pain to be able to overcome it when you need it most...IMHO.
Not all schools are alike!>
Post: The BadBoy:
So what does a Wing Chun School taht teaches functionality look like? You know of any? If so do they have a web address?
Also I agree with you who heartedly that if your gonna fight then your gonna get hit. Where I disagree with how things are taught is that you can minimise being hit. I do not feel that schools teach beginners enough about defence so that they aren't afraid to get hit. What they get taught is a load of nonsense that will not aid them and that is why I feel that a lot of places concentrate on teaching hitting first.>
Post: zefff:
Quoting: The BadBoy;49503 So what does a Wing Chun School taht teaches functionality look like? You know of any? If so do they have a web address?
The school Im in now does have a poor web presence but sadly it is ill-conceived and aimed at the type of person I described before and so too is the open class curriculum at present.
The rawest WC school Ive attended has never had a website but is well known to the hardcore. Ive some good things about these guys though although Ive never seen it. http://www.kamonwingchun.com/
Quoting: The BadBoy;49503 Where I disagree with how things are taught is that you can minimise being hit. I do not feel that schools teach beginners enough about defence so that they aren't afraid to get hit. What they get taught is a load of nonsense that will not aid them and that is why I feel that a lot of places concentrate on teaching hitting first.
By "a lot of places" do you mean general MA or actual WC? Trust me most WC schools (based on my meetings with students) focus on parries and defences before attacks.
Maybe we are not conveying what we are talking about well enough. I think I get you now. It is the defensive techniques themselves that are in question!
So lets take a technique you believe to work, how about an absorption block where you take a right cross and difuse the force on your bent forearms/bicep with a slight roll of the waist.
For self defence applications would you rather learn that technique first to avoid being hit or would you rather learn to step across to the outside and fire your own right cross from inside their angle of attack?
Both have their plus and minus' but I would rather learn to strike hard first myself. For me, good attacking seems to teach me a lot about my body and how it moves. Good defences seem to increase my brain power though as I link it all together off of those....who knows maybe Im chatting rubbish. :mrgreen:>
Post: peajay:
I'm not about to say what school I go to... as a mere student I cannot dream to try and represent their teaching ethos. As such my own naivety may lead me to state things from my perspective that the Sifu doesn't actually mean. I can give people the web address of my school in pm, on the understanding that it's for info, and anything I say here is my opinion...
Now, legal and moral bumph out the way...
We work on teaching the concept that a block is an attack. The arm positions are the same.. the hand shape on the end may be different.
Using Zefffs example, this right cross, block with a pac sau, or fuc sau but that block is also an attack (i say these terms, but they are principles, not fixed shapes/positions). One of the things we are working on now is getting through your attackers fence. So, as my Sifu says, we don't fight, by matching what the attackers stance, they are then dictating the fight and would probably would beat us... If you defend an attack, the only way to win is to then step in and fight as a WC person. So, block that punch, but use that block as the launch of your attack.
Some of our current work is all about attacks... but to block the first punch then blast through the attack, step into the attackers space and fight with WC. Some of it gets quite punchy, with pads, gloves and sometimes face masks...
I may have not described it well... but my thrust is that we do both defence and attack work all the time, one is the same as the other>
Post: zefff:
I get what your saying and that is all good, now what I am saying is that when the punch comes instead of the rear hand parry you could use your own punch to jam the attackers punch off line - basically punch through or over his punch....Or you could just beat him to the punch.
Nothing is bad as long as we punch the man in his face while avoiding his attack; even if we look like shit while doing it. :lol:>
Post: peajay:
[quote=zefff;49518 I get what your saying and that is all good, now what I am saying is that when the punch comes instead of the rear hand parry you could use your own punch to jam the attackers punch off line - basically punch through or over his punch....Or you could just beat him to the punch.
Nothing is bad as long as we punch the man in his face while avoiding his attack; even if we look like shit while doing it. :lol:[/quote
Aahhh...
yes, I agree, the block is actually a strike - yes, we train to do this, but at times its easier to stick in the block first...
Though my Sifu does say to get your retaliation in first, that way you dont have to deal with the first hit.>
Post: zefff:
There are no blocks in WC, only parries.>
Post: peajay:
Zefff, [FONT=Tahoma I agree... I was using block in an example of loosely defined language... [/FONT [FONT=Tahoma I would agree that all WC parries, could actually be strikes, similarly, the structure of a strike means that you are also parrying counter strikes too...[/FONT
[/COLOR
[COLOR=#496292 [FONT=Tahoma Latest update - Now there are three. We have talked my daughter (15) into coming along to WC with us. This, in my opinion, can only be a good thing...[/FONT
[/COLOR
[COLOR=#496292 [FONT=Tahoma We were working against "boxers" last season, how to get in close, do nasty things to their wrist, then keep coming until you’re within WC range and splat them... lol. Of course that is the theory… [/FONT
[/COLOR
[COLOR=#496292 [FONT=Tahoma I find that despite being, what I thought co-ordinated and in charge of all my faculties, WC is setting new standards in multi-tasking… Being able to stand, sinking into the stance, moving your feet (ha! moving at all), and then co-ordinating two arms, doing two things, oh and for Pete’s sake RELAX, such a challenge! I should have been female!:mrgreen:[/FONT >
Post: The BadBoy:
You were working against boxers?
Did you spar with any boxers who have spent a reasonable amount of time in a boxing gym? If not, I'm afraid your efforts where probably wated.>
Post: peajay:
[quote=The BadBoy;49706 You were working against boxers?
Did you spar with any boxers who have spent a reasonable amount of time in a boxing gym? If not, I'm afraid your efforts where probably wated.[/quote
If you take the whole thread as a whole, you'll see i'm more than a little green round the edges in this art.. but i'm an enthusiast, and i do know my limitations... So, note the quotes in my original post... No, i dont think i'd last 2 seconds against a proper fighter. - the idea i was trying (badly i admit) to get over, without saying that i'm now some kind of expert... was that one is likely to meet people who will have a certain stance, guard, way of holding themselves... The idea is to work round that and not to try and match what they are doing, but defend oneself in a WC way...
stick it up, and it gets shot off...:wink:>
Post: The BadBoy:
What I'm trying to say is that if your working to do wing chun against boxers then you need boxers o do wing chun against. You can't mimic a boxer and say its boxing. How many different boxers are there. some are orthodox, some southpaw, some prefer a convemtional stance, others the philly shell. Some only attack on the counter, other wll charge at you like rinos. Get my drift?>
Post: dscott:
[quote=The BadBoy;49785 others the philly shell.[/quote
???????????>
Post: zefff:
Its kind of like the JKD low lead stance but more of a defensive counter game where you can roll punches off your shoulder and generate unorthadox counters off the waist movement...I think! More a talent driven style than a science taught in gyms.>
Post: The BadBoy:
Go to Youtube and do a search for floyd mayweather. He uses the philly shell a lot. Personally I prefer Winky Wrights peek a boo. :)>
Post: peajay:
Coo it has been an absolute age since this forum had a new posting
hence me doing this :mrgreen:
I'm still doing WC... 8 months down the line... (hmm some 190 hrs worth - probably more - i'm rounding down)
I feel that i am getting my head around not thinking about my form anymore
Siu Lim Tao flows - I keep getting picked up on stance, sinking down, relaxing... (Oh gawd how difficult is relaxing supposed to be ???)
I am doing the stuff, rather than thinking of doing it, doing it, and then wondering why there was a pause in the middle...
Got my daughter involved too!
so, me, son and daughter now go... (2 to 3 times a week) money? pah! who needs it!>
| < Prev | Next > |
|---|