Brass Knuckles
Original Poster: vladimir
Forum: Martial Arts Weapons
Posted On: 23-06-2005, 11:36
Orginal Post: vladimir: Has anyone ever had to use these and how much more effective do they generally make a punch?
Post: zefff:
Ive used them a couple of times and they are great! Some designs are better than others though.>
Post: Lange:
I believe that brass knuckles are illegal.
That and they are an offensive weapon. Period. If some guy jacks you up or if you are getting mugged, will you have time to whip out those brass knucks? Nope.
The only reason that I have seen to have brass knuckles if as an offensive weapon (i.e., being a thug). It's not a self-defense weapon.>
Post: dscott:
[quote=Lange I believe that brass knuckles are illegal.
That and they are an offensive weapon. Period. If some guy jacks you up or if you are getting mugged, will you have time to whip out those brass knucks? Nope.
The only reason that I have seen to have brass knuckles if as an offensive weapon (i.e., being a thug). It's not a self-defense weapon.[/quote
I completely agree with you. I've never heard of people carrying these around for self-defense. But I also don't live in a tough environment. I'm a suburbanite. :lol:>
Post: zefff:
yes they are offensive weapons. You think about using it, then you prepare it for use.
The question was about how do they affect the punch. I found they make it much more effective to body and head targets.
If 'some guy jacks you', you wont have time to prepare almost any weapon so its no big deal. But yes they can be fiddly, although IMHO they have been great in gang vs gang scenarios where you can almost knock through whoever pops up.>
Post: dscott:
[quote=zefff although IMHO they have been great in gang vs gang scenarios where you can almost knock through whoever pops up.[/quote
Honestly Zefff....where do you live? Maybe I'm completely sheltered so I don't want to offend you (or I'll get brass knuckles to my dome) :lol:>
Post: setsu nin to:
I have few of them in my collection. I also used them. I wouldnt recomande to use full force is you strike head, becouse you will kill your opponent, so be careful...>
Post: zefff:
I am from Birmingham in central England (its the 2nd city) but now Ive retired to a small village in the south. The gang vs gang stuff I mentioned could be anything from pub and nightclub brawls to football hooliganism or fairgrounds etc.>
Post: Lange:
Brass knuckles do one of three things: break bones, cause concussions, or tear your face up, depending on how you use them. A strong hook to someone's jaw along the side and it's shattered (not dislocated, but shattered). A downwards strike on their eyebrow and they have a very nasty cut. A straight punch to the forehead can easily equal a concussion and hospital trip.
Oh yeah...the same hitting principles apply as without them because you can break your hands useing them. Argue with me if you like, but it's happened, at Myrtle Beach, a guy punched another with brass knucks and broke his pinky and ring finger.
They give a bit more range too if that really matters, lol.>
Post: zefff:
Who cares? this thread is over but anyway...
it depends on the design. They arent all the same, there are thousands of different types.
...and how do you know the bloke "at Myrtle Beach" broke his fingers? Did you treat him in casualty?>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Lange A downwards strike on their eyebrow and they have a very nasty cut. [/quote
and by 'very nasty cut' you meant to say 'broken eye socket.'>
Post: Lange:
[quote=zefff Who cares? this thread is over but anyway...
it depends on the design. They arent all the same, there are thousands of different types.
...and how do you know the bloke "at Myrtle Beach" broke his fingers? Did you treat him in casualty?[/quote
*sigh*
Because we go to the same school and he was wearing a brace at first and later got a more permanent cast on it and I asked him. And I was at Myrtle when the brawl happened.
My turn for questions: these varying designs of brass knucks, what else do they do, depending on the type? Does one spit fire or energy balls and another make you float?
Tease, no, I mean a nasty cut. Coming with a downwards strike using knucks (the kind I've used, I dunno, maybe the kind zeff uses have some special type of ray or something) and only arm speed can cause a cut and often will not have sufficient power to break bone.>
Post: zefff:
Lange, if he broke his fingers that would be because of a bad fit. Its his own fault if he didnt test em out before use. A snug fit with no excess movement is what you want otherwise the brass can crush your fingers if it flaps about.
"these varying designs of brass knucks, what else do they do, depending on the type? Does one spit fire or energy balls and another make you float?"
look, there are loads of different designs going back hundreds of years! There are some designed by thugs for thugs, for KOs, for breaking, for cuts and slashing, there are some designed for police use, some designed for soldiers close quarter use, some for use with knives, some designed even for torture etc, etc. Also the designs are constantly refined.
Also what is that crap about arm speed causing cuts? How old are you? Im not really experienced at all myself but Ive used mine twice and saw others use them loads. They spark people on their arse or smash the face in.
I cant be arsed with you anymore. :lol: :roll:>
Post: Lange:
*sigh again*
Sometimes, often unintentionally, during a brawl, your balance, timing, etc aren't all that good, or people simply move. And with the way people hit, they often do this weird downards hook which has a lot of speed but little actual body force behind it, often resulting in a cut because a body weight wasn't applied and/or they just missed. What I mean is, it can graze on a corner and slice a face open bad, especially if it happens to hit the bridge of the nose, eye socket, hairline, or cheekbone.
And also, from what you are telling me, brass knuckles do what I said they do: break bones, cause bleeding, etc. There are varioations, yes, but they do about the same thing. Kinda relate it like the signs of a problem or the problem itself.
He broke his fingers because he made contact with the pinky and ring finger from all accounts I've heard. It wasn't just broken fingers, it was some wrist spraining/straining as well (forgot to add that, sry).
I'm eighteen by the way.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Lange Tease, no, I mean a nasty cut. Coming with a downwards strike using knucks and only arm speed can cause a cut and often will not have sufficient power to break bone.[/quote
[quote=Lange Sometimes, often unintentionally, during a brawl, your balance, timing, etc aren't all that good, or people simply move. And with the way people hit, they often do this weird downards hook which has a lot of speed but little actual body force behind it, often resulting in a cut because a body weight wasn't applied and/or they just missed. What I mean is, it can graze on a corner and slice a face open bad, especially if it happens to hit the bridge of the nose, eye socket, hairline, or cheekbone.[/quote
Maybe your method of fighting differs from mine, but I never strike downwards unless the target is underneath me. And "from all of the brawls you've seen" it sounds a lot like a bunch of school kids with anger control issues rather than anyone who actually knows how to throw a proper punch. If I socked you in the eye with brass knuckles on, you wouldn't get a nasty cut, you'd get much worse. End of story. Stop wasting space on the forum.>
Post: zefff:
Look, somethings u say are right others are wrong. All what I say is IMHO!...sprained wrists has nothing to do with brass knuckles. Also if you arent hitting the target squarely you arent using knuckledusters properly.
They are best used preemptively rather than in a drawn out ruckus where you have a shifting target and are swinging and cliching.
...anyway forget it, you are the knuckleduster master. big up your chest.>
Post: Nihang:
I used to have a pair of knuckle dusters b4 i gave em away to a friend, their design was 2 simple rings with jagged spikes coming out the top, definitly not comfortable in the hands, I can understand how you could damage ur fingers if u use em incorrectly.
I saw some other pair which had extra metal for the palm which acted as a cushion so there was no movement at all unlike the ones i had.
>
Post: Lange:
[quote=Tease T Tickle [quote=Lange Tease, no, I mean a nasty cut. Coming with a downwards strike using knucks and only arm speed can cause a cut and often will not have sufficient power to break bone.[/quote
[quote=Lange Sometimes, often unintentionally, during a brawl, your balance, timing, etc aren't all that good, or people simply move. And with the way people hit, they often do this weird downards hook which has a lot of speed but little actual body force behind it, often resulting in a cut because a body weight wasn't applied and/or they just missed. What I mean is, it can graze on a corner and slice a face open bad, especially if it happens to hit the bridge of the nose, eye socket, hairline, or cheekbone.[/quote
Maybe your method of fighting differs from mine, but I never strike downwards unless the target is underneath me. And "from all of the brawls you've seen" it sounds a lot like a bunch of school kids with anger control issues rather than anyone who actually knows how to throw a proper punch. If I socked you in the eye with brass knuckles on, you wouldn't get a nasty cut, you'd get much worse. End of story. Stop wasting space on the forum.[/quote
First, I know I don't know everything; heck, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
What I'm saying is this:
A lot of times, people who carry weapons like this do not know the physics of a proper punch and do not train to throw them and so they go with whatever feels comfortable. So, while yes, you guys can crack someone's forehead open, a lot of other people simply cannot with the way they strike.
As far as my brawls, yeah, pretty much! But then again, how many people that can fight get into brawls in the first place? Not many because it's dangerous (outside of bouncers, that is their job) as heck...it's so easy to get blindsided when you got 30 people throwin' punches at anything that moves.
My chest doesn't puff out...that brings problems ;)>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Lange A lot of times, people who carry weapons like this do not know the physics of a proper punch and do not train to throw them and so they go with whatever feels comfortable. So, while yes, you guys can crack someone's forehead open, a lot of other people simply cannot with the way they strike.[/quote
So, when you said previously that a punch to the eyebrow meant a nasty cut, you meant an inept punch. Nobody trains to fight the inept. If your training is worth its salt, the inept are in the bag and are not worth even discussing. So, why do you want to discuss the operations of the inept?
Quote: As far as my brawls, yeah, pretty much! But then again, how many people that can fight get into brawls in the first place? Not many because it's dangerous (outside of bouncers, that is their job) as heck...it's so easy to get blindsided when you got 30 people throwin' punches at anything that moves.
Actually the answer "not many" comes with the tag, "because those that receive training typically live outside of the socio-economic sphere where physical violence is likely to occur." I don't know Myrtle Beach, and I'm sure a Florida vacation spot is a real rough place to live, but if you're training for a fist fight and not getting into fist fights aren't you just wasting time?
Quote: My chest doesn't puff out...that brings problems ;)
So does flapping jaws. Which you seem to be incapable of doing.>
Post: Lange:
Am I flapping my jaws? No. I simply stated something that I saw and observed (which also says nothing about how/why/what I train, so any assumption about that is purely your own...this stated in regards to the statment about training to fight the inept) :)
A brawl can happen at any level of society, violence is not limited to a certain class of people. However, Myrtle Beach is in South Carolina and there are good parts and bad parts there, South Myrtle being much like Detroit...drugs, fighting, weapons being pulled, etc. Even in North Myrtle though, violence isn't...common but is isn't a surprise because people and alcohol don't always produce the most stellar results. That's why there are big fights like that.
Who said I train to get into it on the street? Maybe I learned some lessons and methods before I started training MA? And I don't train to brawl, I train to box, kick, submit, or throw. Will it work on the street? I dunno, but I figure that hitting someone in the head with a wrench from behind takes a bit less skill and if it doesn't put them out, you still got surprise on your side so you can hit them again or run.
The above also answers fist fights...why fist fight? Fighting fair isn't fighting, that's a dominance complex thing. I don't care if you're tougher than me. Sure, okay, you got a baseball bat. I go to my truck and run you over. I win the "fight" but does that make me tougher? No. Does it make you tougher? No, that just makes you dumb.
(Note that "you" does not specify anyone on the forum, I'm not making a threat to anyone)>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Lange Am I flapping my jaws? No. [/quote
You're wrong. You made claims, you were corrected by two different people. You kept making claims to try to save face. You've been corrected again and again and yet you keep coming back to try to sound like you know what you're talking about. That, my son, is flapping your jaws. So, when you say that you aren't, you're wrong. This is another correction and I'm going to go out on a limb and bet large sums of money that you try to prove to me that it isn't truth coming from me.
Quote: A brawl can happen at any level of society, violence is not limited to a certain class of people.
Can happen, sure, but with what frequency? You don't hear on the news about East Bumfuck, Missouri (population 42) having a huge brawl in the middle of town that had to be broken up by Sheriff Opie. While I know first hand how rich snobs will starts rumbles from time to time over matters of 'honor' those fights do not occur in the same numbers or result in the same destruction as old school gang turf wars or drug-related hits. Now, you can try to play up your neighborhood like it's worth respect but Detroit has been number one off and on for the past ten years for the highest murder rate in the nation. Don't compare our cities, don't act like you know how rough things can get, because I know for a fact that you haven't seen rougher than a few brats causing drama.
Quote: Who said I train to get into it on the street? Maybe I learned some lessons and methods before I started training MA? And I don't train to brawl, I train to box, kick, submit, or throw. Will it work on the street? I dunno, but I figure that hitting someone in the head with a wrench from behind takes a bit less skill and if it doesn't put them out, you still got surprise on your side so you can hit them again or run.
I don't care what you train in or why. The fact of the matter is that you said people who train try to avoid situations in which they would use their training, which makes about as much sense as throwing yourself down a flight of stairs.
Quote: The above also answers fist fights...why fist fight? Fighting fair isn't fighting, that's a dominance complex thing. I don't care if you're tougher than me. Sure, okay, you got a baseball bat. I go to my truck and run you over. I win the "fight" but does that make me tougher? No. Does it make you tougher? No, that just makes you dumb.
Actually it makes you dumb because "fist fight" just means an altercation in which you are unarmed. There's nothing about dominance or fairness, it's the simple reality that you aren't going to have a weapon with you at all times. If you go to a family reunion and your Uncle Jeff smacks you across the face after drinking too much Jack Daniels, you're not going to run him over with your truck. If you did you might have "won" but you've also "earned" a trip to death row. If you want to try to trump somebody, make sure you can live with the consequences. Research on soldiers over the past century has shown that people forced to kill other people often suffer serious mental health issues, predominantly Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder which can be so debilitating that you can never hold a job or even take basic care of yourself. So, if you think you're billy badass for whatever reason, don't push it. You might not be able to live with yourself after the fact.>
Post: Iron Knuckles:
I've never actually used Brass knuckles in a fight, but I do have a fairly decent collection of em, and like Zeff (I think it was zeff) said, if you have a proper fit, you shouldn't break anything. I myself have broken tiles and taken huge chunks out of immovable brick walls (just for experimentation) and not hurt my fingers or palm in the least. On a side note, I often wear a pair of chrome brass knucks like the ones pictured earlier as a belt buckle. More as a fashion statement than for any real combat effectiveness. All it takes is a little knob added to them in the right place and people get to market them as a belt buckle rather than an offensive weapon with a bad reputation.>
Post: setsu nin to:
We all have diferent fists, so some weapon (Brass knuckles in these case) will be to small for one person but in same time to big to other. Sometimes there is only one small part of it that wont fit to two diferent persons.
If your weapon doesnt fit to you than you can hurt yourself useing it.>
Post: Lange:
Well, if that makes you feel better...yes, you are %100.00 right about everything I said, you are the master, I bow to your greatness, etc, etc, etc *bows and kisses feet*
Sidenote- I didn't grow up in a bad neighborhood...I'm just good at getitng myself into trouble. Small guy, poor impulse control, apparently big mouth (it's probably true, you say so and so does everyone else that knows me in real life), etc. ;)>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
[quote=Lange Well, if that makes you feel better...yes, you are %100.00 right about everything I said, you are the master, I bow to your greatness, etc, etc, etc *bows and kisses feet*[/quote
No, that doesn't make me feel better. You kissing my feet is just kind of creepy. Michael Jackson serving Jesus Juice at a Boyscout meeting creepy.
Quote: Sidenote- I didn't grow up in a bad neighborhood...I'm just good at getitng myself into trouble. Small guy, poor impulse control, apparently big mouth (it's probably true, you say so and so does everyone else that knows me in real life), etc. ;)
I know all about the big mouth and poor impulse control. I can get away with it, though, because I don't have that pesky small guy problem. If that helps you understand the ego at all. ;-)>
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