Learning staff without a teacher?
Original Poster: Gazelle
Forum: Martial Arts Weapons
Posted On: 06-02-2006, 02:49
Orginal Post: Gazelle: Hi
I was wondering if anyone could give me a bit of help. I have been dying to learn the staff for ages, and i have finally got one, at least a piece of wood that is perfectly suitable to use as such for the moment (i think). As such i now need something to learn from, either books or DVD's. Can you give me any recommendations? I am interested in learning about how some of the Chinese styles use it. Then, if i ever succeed in that, i'd like to have a look at the Japanese to see if there are many comparisons.
I would be extremely grateful for any help you could give me.
Post: Tapout95:
If you read around here a little bit, you'll find that most agree that trying to learn any type of martial art without a teacher is unwise. Books and DVD's just don't show you everything that it takes to learn a martial art. And while i'm no martial artist myself, i really don't think that training with a branch or broom handle (whatever you got) is really practical.
Thats just me. Feel free to try if you want. But if you end up having any accidental ball-taps, don't say i didn't warn you!>
Post: Gazelle:
Thank you for the advise, and i perfectly understand it, only i am not in a position where i can get a teacher at the moment. I currently live in a place where there isn't any teachers about for staffs, which is why i haven't started earlier.
And as for the broom. It is only the handle, a 6 foot piece of wood tapered at one end!>
Post: Galaknore:
Gazelle,
I know exactly what you mean about learning the staff. Currently, I am learning both kempo and shootfighting at the school I train at. I am now begin to learn basic staff katas, but at least at my school you have to have a higher rank to learn them. I'm sure you could probably mess around a little bit and maybe find someone that knows how to use a staff or something along those lines. Like Tapout said though there is no real substitute for an instructor.>
Post: bamboo:
Parry, Thrust, Overhead strike.
Look these up, practice them over and over again, practice them over and over again and then practice them over and over again.
Give yourself a year or two of this and you'll be proficient enough to start sparring with gear (try kendo equip.) In that year (hopefully two) you should have been able to work out smooth footwork, a natural stance and relaxed flow.
Always guard your center line, keep the wood pointed at the throat and keep your hips facing forward.
Forget the twirly shit, forget the spinning crap, the above listed three will be enough at the start.
-bamboo>
Post: zefff:
8O I sense a difference in this Bamboo. ;)
(Hockey or cricket protective gear is a great cheap alternative)>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
Best advice, if you can't find a teacher, don't bother with it for now. It is easy to develope bad habits that will be difficult to get rid of.>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
I?m going to agree with Panta here. I?ve been doing Chinese staff for several years now, and can say that by trying to teach yourself Chinese staff (that is, without the guidance of a teacher) you will build more bad habits than good. Put it off until you can find a teacher.
btw, bamboo, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the spiny flashing stuff is crap. The monks were throwing staffs over their heads and around their backs for a reason.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=WushuPadawan001
btw, bamboo, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the spiny flashing stuff is crap. The monks were throwing staffs over their heads and around their backs for a reason.[/quote
I know of a bomb shelter that holds 6 comfortably if anyone else wants to join me.>
Post: setsu nin to:
Learning martial arts without teacher/instructor is same smart as going to toilette without toilette paper.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=setsu nin to Learning martial arts without teacher/instructor is same smart as going to toilette without toilette paper.[/quote
yeah in both instances your fingers will get a pretty dirty.>
Post: Hengest:
[quote=WushuPadawan001 btw, bamboo, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the spiny flashing stuff is crap. The monks were throwing staffs over their heads and around their backs for a reason.[/quote
Cos it gets more points in forms competition?>
Post: zefff:
LMAO @ Panta! I'll take the spot by the window.
Ive only done a tiny bit of 6 foot staff along with some 10 foot pole but I can see that spinning a staff might be good for keeping multiple oponents at bay.
Ive seen a lot of people who look awesome with a pole but I can see they couldnt really fight with it.
It should be practiced, striking on bags or against other poles though because when you hit something, the pole doesnt continue spinning in the same way and you have to be prepared for that or else you might lose your staff. Dont just strike the air, you wouldnt do that with punches and kicks would you? Definitely work on parries and strikes against the angles before doing anything else though.
Are there any sparring clips of staff with armour? I am interested now but no choreographed stuff though :)>
Post: Gazelle:
Thanks guys. I have to admit i am a little worried about the bad habits! But i think i'll give it a go anyway, every now and again our old instructor comes back to the club i'm at and he does know how to use the staff, and even if he only omes down to the club once, i'll just have to be sure to ask him about some 'stuff' while he's there.
I'll do that search and see where it takes me.
Oh, i think i may have missed how to change the belt on the profile bit, and though i know that this request is going to cause some laughs for others, i wondered if any of you can tel me how exactly you change it? I obviously kept missing it.>
Post: dscott:
[quote=Gazelle
Oh, i think i may have missed how to change the belt on the profile bit, and though i know that this request is going to cause some laughs for others, i wondered if any of you can tel me how exactly you change it? I obviously kept missing it.[/quote
You didn't miss anything. When your post count increases, your belt changes. That's all that it is.>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: btw, bamboo, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the spiny flashing stuff is crap. The monks were throwing staffs over their heads and around their backs for a reason.
Wushu
I take no offense. I do infact have a question for you.... have you ever sparred using a staff?
The very second you move your staff over your head, I take your teeth. You swirl and spin, I take your teeth. Get the picture. Yes, I have worked with CMA men.
Now, take a minute and tell me what the flashy stuff does infact do interms of practical application, do not get smug, mention a monk and then leave it at that. It simply tells me that your doing nothing more than spewing "fact" without knowing why.
Setsu, Panta,- Although I would normaly agree with the idea of not practicing without a teacher, I have recently come to the conclusion that this is not the "be all end all". Years of practice and practical experimentation can bring about realization. One good shake up to the system so to say.
Quote: I sense a difference in this Bamboo.
Zefff my friend, you sensed correct. I am back, and quite frankly feel like a new person. :wink:
-bamboo>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: Are there any sparring clips of staff with armour? I am interested now but no choreographed stuff though
I must have missed this. I will check if I still have clips of me doing this. I do have pics and will look for it. When I became sick of it all, I trashed most of the "memories", hopefully I still have a few around.
-b>
Post: dscott:
Welcome back Bamboo. It's great to see that you're back.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
the twirly stuff is to make a small hurricane to mess up your opponent's hair.
seriously...you dont put your hand over your head to begin an attack. And there are many different bo forms Wushu and Bamboo.>
Post: bamboo:
Lets be blunt here.
Are we discussing practical practice technique and form or basic "how tos" for a guy without a teacher?
I fucking know there are more forms than wushu out there, what do you take me for? C'mon Panta, don't feed me the lines my friend. :wink: :D
This is waste of mine and yours time.
A man asked about how to learn a staff on his own, I gave him a solid way to do it. You wanna go practice some complicated form seen on a dvd and apply it? Have fun. Practice the three basic things I listed and you will be able to actually use the staff.
Parry= deflecting defense and turns naturaly into a sweep or straight thrust. This of course is noticed as soon as people take the time to practice rather than jabber.
Thrust- this is a basic strike, a way of learning to advance and retreat and to keep center line. No center line with big stick = your pain. Its also a powerful strike.
Overhead strike- straight freaking power. Swing it like an axe, let it fall natuarlly and if you miss, well, your body will react in way that you'll discover through hard practice.
Like Zefff said- resistance is important for the training.
Gentlemen, wanna debate the efficacy of a 6 foot pole vs a standard jo? Lets start a new thread, i'm game. :wink:
And I still want to know what the monks used the twirly shit for.
-bamboo>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
UMMM buddy, I wasn't defending the twirly stuff. I infact see the only realistic type of wood weapons to be escrima stick training. Or toothpicks....
bamboo I wasn't "feeding" you any lines. I was just reminding you AND wushu there are different bo forms in CMAs.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=bamboo Lets be blunt here.
-bamboo[/quote
LOL cuz bo's have a blunt edge.....>
Post: WushuPadawan001:
Look, all I?m saying is that from my experience twirls and spins have martial applications.
For instance, the most basic spin (not sure how to describe it, sorry) is a ward, a block, a low block and a strike to the head, just a head strike, a sweep, a collar bone strike, and that?s just the stuff off the top of my head.
Just because a move looks flashy doesn?t mean it lacks substance.>
Post: bamboo:
Very funny, now correct the spelling in your quote.
"lose" not "loose">
Post: bamboo:
If you want to debate the "flash" and "substance" then fine, but how does this effect the OPs question regarding solo learning?
I stand by my original response, if you want to learn on your own, NO TEACHER then forget the twirls and spins, stick to the those three basics.
-bamboo>
Post: zefff:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:>
Post: Gazelle:
I will indeed try those three basics, minus one swirlly thing which was one of the things my previous martial arts teacher who could use the staff did show me.
Oh, and by the way, what is it that made you think i was a man? Trust me, i am very much female!>
Post: dscott:
[quote=Gazelle I will indeed try those three basics, minus one swirlly thing which was one of the things my previous martial arts teacher who could use the staff did show me.
Oh, and by the way, what is it that made you think i was a man? Trust me, i am very much female![/quote
That's a suprise......I don't know why I just assumed you were a guy.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Jo kicks Bo ass!!!!>
Post: nbotary:
[quote=Gazelle I will indeed try those three basics, minus one swirlly thing which was one of the things my previous martial arts teacher who could use the staff did show me.
Oh, and by the way, what is it that made you think i was a man? Trust me, i am very much female![/quote REALLY?!?!?!Post us a picture!!!!!>
Post: dscott:
Nbotary: Stop. Don't harrass the only woman that we have on the board.>
Post: nbotary:
[quote=dscott Nbotary: Stop. Don't harrass the only woman that we have on the board.[/quote I ain't harassing her... yet!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:>
Post: zefff:
FFS forget the woman and admire MY genius! That last post of mine was a eureka moment...wasted :(>
Post: Gazelle:
I promise zefff, it was not my intention to 'waste' your eureka moment, and nbotary, you really thing i am going to put a picture of me on the internet, when there are a few not very nice people who might misuse it in some way? And, anyway, as i am asked to put a picture up, wouldn't you say everyone should be asked?>
Post: zefff:
http://www.fightauthority.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0>
Post: Gazelle:
I'm still not posting my picture. My age, height and weight is enough for the moment at least.>
Post: Gazelle:
This is going to sound ridiculuos, i actually feel guilty to saying no about posting my picture! I'm still not going to, because my caution tells me otherwise. Can you imagine my dad doing a search and for some reason finding a picture of his daughter on the 'net. I know him, he would put on this face that showed that he really isn't happy about it, and start lecturing me as if i'm some ignorant person. Also, there is the slight problem that i have no recent photographs, the few i have are of me when i was younger. However, how about a compromise? I have nearly finished a quick self portrait (face only, sorry to disappoint nbotary), it's not perfect, but it will give you an idea. Well, i will put it on, if i can.>
Post: zefff:
Well I suggest you PM it to him because noone else cares what you look like. The processes inide your head are much more interesting than any image and if you are honest, are more likely to get you in trouble with your Dad.>
Post: Gazelle:
Thank you. I wasn't going to post it because he asked me to, it seeemed wrong to do that! Him asking me to make a spectacle of myself! Really, i wasn't planning on doing that. It was simply because quite a few people had already put theirs up so it felt a little bad not to join in (i know, mad). I don't know why, although i do have a tendancy to be, 'too nice' quote from my previous instructor. Though admittedly he might think differently now if he were to see me sparring with someone, especcially another female, i can get quite competitive! I don't say anything horrible, but I am definately competitive while i'm fighting. Unfortunately (or fortunately) there aren't many people to spar with at our club, never mind with women. I'm not entirely sure what the point was of me writing all that, but there we go!>
Post: zefff:
It is a good thing that you think independently and dont follow the crowd. :) Why is there no-one to spar with at your class? Sparring sessions shouldnt be constant all out wars. If you dont relax a little you'll never learn anything. I would say find another school where sparring is regular, scientific and goal orientated rather than a 'just beat the other guy and win' approach.
peace>
Post: Gazelle:
Oh no! It is very relaxed and fun, it's just when i'm with someone who is either more experienced or on the same level, then i get a bit competitive because i have this slight problem of liking to be the best! And if not the best, the best that i can possibly be at that time, then hope time and practice will do the rest! It is true there aren't that many people to spar with who are at my level, because there aren't loads in the club, and all those that are (about a my level or above) apart from a few newcomers and the teacher are male. So when we do spar i tend to fight big guys, huge guys (on occassions), and little guys but very few girls/women. When i was sparring with this huge guy (i.e. well above 6ft) once i did this wicked competition spinning kick right on his head! I have good legs (hence 'Gazelle' the name given to me by the club), i have good arms too, but my legs are the ones that shock people.
Yes, it is also true that we don't spar very often. And, there is no way that i could go to another club. I live in Cyprus currently on one of the bases, and this is the only English club, and i don't believe any of the Cypriotones are that good. Besides, i like the people at the one i'm at now!
You'd never notice that i'm one for detail when i write (slight sarcastic comment)!>
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