Origin of the Sword
Original Poster: BLACK PANTA
Forum: Martial Arts Weapons
Posted On: 07-11-2004, 02:04
Orginal Post: BLACK PANTA: Does anyone have any info of the origin of the sword? Where was the first sword made?
I work the afternoon shift now so I have a lot of time to ponder.............. :roll:
Post: bamboo:
Guy hit another guy with a pointy stick....then it just took off. :P>
Post: setsu nin to:
Actualy these is the one of the moust interesting topics that I saw here in last few months. Unfortunatly I am to tired now to write, but I prmise post tomorow about it.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=setsu nin to Actualy these is the one of the moust interesting topics that I saw here in last few months. Unfortunatly I am to tired now to write, but I prmise post tomorow about it.[/quote
i'll hold you 2 it>
Post: setsu nin to:
Here it is mr. Panta!
Sword was always special weapon, and you may finde in every cultur that sword take special place in mithology, history... and its almoust always simbol of power. Reson for that is actualy very simple, sword was first weapon made only for killing other people. Spears, arrowas, knifes, peaks... were first made for hunting. So sword always had only one purpose and that was to take life. OK, is someone likes it more than its purpose was to save life;-)
Also I found important to say few words about presword weapons and tools.
First hand made tool was made 1800000 years BC, it was easy to made it, you take one stone and hit other stone with it, than you ger some stone "blade" on it.
First modelate stones were made between 500000 and 400000 years BC, so these stones were fit to hand and were made on anvil made of stone. These stones werent looking nice, every stone was diferent.
First peaks were made between 35000 and 20000 years BC.
First pikes and cutting stones made same size and very similar were made between 20000 and 15000 years BC.
First peaks made of bones were made between 18000 and 10000 years BC.
Maybe just to say that spear was found in paleolitic (enden in 10000) and that hunters could throw it 80 meters!!! Bow and arows found in mezolitic (10000/8000BC) were for that time something as best snipers today, hunters could shoot arrow for 400 meters!!!
For all who think now about people who lived in small villages, ride horses, live surrounded by wonderful flowers and other romantic TV crap, I will have to dissapointed them becouse people are still in caves in that time. Its all prehistory and not history so you should look at it in that way. Actualy people start with cultivation of the land in neolitic (6000/4000BC). Same in neolitic were made first axes!
For swords it was important metal and first metal was found 6000 years BC in SW Azia, its was copper, but it was too soft so it wasnt much in use. 2000 years late people found out that if they mix copper with tin they will get much better matal - bronze. So 4000 years BC first swords were found and also its begining od metal period. First swords were made in that period (4000BC) in SW Azia. Bronze come in Mediterian area 3000BC, in India 2000BC, in W Eu 1600BC, in China 1600BC, in S America 0AC and in middle America 800 years AC.
Also these with bronze they started very soon with making swords. Ofcourse after some time metal for making swords was changed, but everything started with bronze. As anyone here probably know metal for making swords just as same sword was changed durin the history.
So first swords were made from bronze and come from SW Azia. These swords were duble edged and was made same for cutting as for stabing. They was light with short handle. Daggers from same time were very similar to swords. They were actualy same as sword just with much shorter blade.
Also its interesting to compare swords from early bronze period from diferent parts of world. If you do that you will see that they are all very similar. For example if you look at sword from Mediterian and Japan (it have nothing similar with Katana) you will noticed that they are diferent just in details. But is you look for second generation of same swords made from iron you will noticed that Mediterian sword looks more like what will later become Roman gladius and Japanese sword (tsurugi) looks more like something that will become Katana soon.
Best examples how swords were were important you may finde in mitology. Moust often sword is connected to god of war or to god who protect blacksmiths. In Sumer, in town Uruk was found well known temple of goddess Inani. Inani was goddess of love, fertility and war and she was worship more than Anu who was main god. Babylons and Akkadians culture accept Sumers religion so Inani become Ishtar and was also more worshim than Elom. Its also important to say that bouth goddess were shown more as goddess of fertility (big naked woman with big breasts and big bottom - Ishtar wasnt so big as Inani), than goddess of war (shown with some weapon).
Greek and Romans gods and goddess were little more precise about their simbols. First sword was made by Hephaistos (Greek)/Vulcan (Rome) who was god of blacksmiths, fire and vulcans. Sword was simbol of Ares/Mars, good of war, while Athene/Minerva, goddess of handicraft, wisdom and peace have spear as simbol.
We cant talk about swords and not say something about Japan...
Well here is story about two tribes, two swords and few more gods more. One tribe used hoko (old spear) and were able to get power using it. They were small tribes. Other tribe used bronze swords (tsurugi) and hoko. In their conflict tribes with swords win and new big tribe was called Tsurugi No Kuni (land of the sword). After some time new tribe come. New tribe was lead by two warrior gods Takemikazuchi-No-Mikoto and Futsunushi-No-Mikoto and bouth were armen with iron swords called Futsunomitama-No-Tsurgi (swords of spritual power). They ordered to Okuninushi-No-Mikoto (leader of Tsurugi No Kuni) to surrend his land to the sun goddess Amaterasu Omi-No-Kami, Okuninushi-No-Mikoto was so afraid of their swords that he surrend widouth battle.
If I wrote one more word I dont belive that anyone will read these post...>
Post: bamboo:
Setsu, please continue with the japanese one. :D>
Post: setsu nin to:
Hm, didnt I wrote about it or it was lost in old forum? I will look for it here and if I dont finde it I will wrote something again.>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Hey, that's a nice portion of the Japanese creation myth that I haven't yet read! Interesting to hear about the wars of the gods - didn't know there were those to read about :mrgreen:
It just goes to show, ladies and germs, that it's not just the size that matters - it's how hard you can make it :twisted:>
Post: setsu nin to:
Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn
Well wars between gods and goddesses are nothing new in mythology actualy you may finde much worst things like torturing, killing, stealing, conspiracy, revenge, rapeing, incest, homosexuality... Actualy in moust mythologyes gods and goddesses have same good and bad things as humans.>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Oh, I know all that, setsu old boy - I'm talking about the war of the gods in Japanese mythology specifically. I haven't read that bit yet :mrgreen:
And I personally like the torturing, raping and incest bits the best :twisted:>
Post: lakan_sampu:
talk about mythology...how about southeast asian swords?anyone here have to say about them?
(shame on me, a Filipino training in FMA havi little knowledge of them myself..at least yet...)
cheers comrades!>
Post: setsu nin to:
li_siao_lung
Hm, SE Asian swords, thats interesting. Well if you take that bronze age in SE Asia started in 800BC than you may take it same as date when first sword are made.>
Post: setsu nin to:
Hm just to say few more words about Japanese swords.
Well first Japoanese swords were made from bronze and were called Tsurugi. After same swords were made of iron but their look was changed. Blade was still duble adged and it was sword blade not sabre blade as Katana have it. Also it was more thin blade than Tsurugi made of bronze had it. But in that time sword had more spiritual walue that it was realy used in wars. Massive using of swords in Japan begin in Kamakura period, after war with Mongols when they realise adventage of sword over bow. But bow was in use still long, long after it and there is proof for that in many scripts ans storyes which was wroted after it.>
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