Tactical Knives
Original Poster: Iron Knuckles
Forum: Martial Arts Weapons
Posted On: 21-02-2006, 18:15
Orginal Post: Iron Knuckles: This is mostly for those of you who train with knives. I'm starting to make my own knives now, and I want to make a tactical knife. what are some features you guys would like to see on a fighting knife?
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Taking up knife-making? Neat! I want an assault rifle with a hundred-round drum and a hand-flamer on mine :mrgreen:
Just a tad more seriously, I like my tactical knives simple, rugged and yet multifunctional. Are you making a fixed blade or a folder? If a folder, I'd like 100% non-ferrous, non-magnetic construction - preferably a titanium or talonite blade with a tanto or spear-point, semi-serrated edge, anodised handles of either aircraft-grade aluminium alloy or else titanium. Interchangeable pocket clip with adjustable traction, liner-locking action with an additional safety lock that can be manually engaged by the user once the knife is open, fast one-handed opening action with a finger and/or thumb stud like what the CRKT Kit Carson knives have. A spring-assisted opener like the Ken Onions or SOGs would be good too, but those have legality issues in some places, sadly.>
Post: Iron Knuckles:
Well, considering I'm just starting, it'll have to be a fixed blade, folders would be way too complicated. As to the steel, I wouldn't have too much of a choice. I wouldn't be forging the blade, just grinding and shaping it, then heat treating it in a big fire in my back yard. I figure if I really enjoy it I can invest some money in a forge and some better tools. For my first one I was thinking it would be a fixed blade with a spear-point, standard edge, and either a nylon chord wrap in my own technique or a tradition japanese chord wrap. I was also thinking about cutting a shallow groove along the back for trapping. Any other suggestions?>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Ah, I see. Speaking of blade shapes, what's the difference between a hollow grind and a flat grind? It seems that the former is preferred for strength, whereas the latter is preferred for sharpness.
In this case, I personally would tend towards a flat profile knife - something that fits flush against the body and maybe with a perforation in the handle that would fit a finger so one can draw it fast. What kind of steel are you using for this one? If it can take it, a differential temper would be good. As for the handle, I personally prefer cotton tape, because it's more comfortable to the hand, though nylon would no doubt last better in the field. As for the styling, try your own and see how it measures up to the traditional Japanese. If you can, add a blood groove - I'm quite partial to them :mrgreen: Oh, speaking of blade shapes, I personally would like a blade with a fair bit of mass forward of the line of the handle, if you get my meaning (that is, the cutting edge proceeds ahead of the level of the knuckles in a chopping motion), for additional cutting power, though you may have to change the point style if you want to retain penetrating power.
I'm looking forward to how this turns out :mrgreen:>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
I'm partial to claw shaped blades like this model from Spyderco:
http://www.bestknives.com/spc8ka.html
Although, I would like the blade longer and well balanced with the handle for better manuevering.>
Post: setsu nin to:
-Widouth any doubt it should be knife with fixed balde
-it should be small and easy to hide
-easy to pull it out
-handle should fit to hand>
Post: Iron Knuckles:
I forgot all about this thread...
Quote: Ah, I see. Speaking of blade shapes, what's the difference between a hollow grind and a flat grind? It seems that the former is preferred for strength, whereas the latter is preferred for sharpness.
In this case, I personally would tend towards a flat profile knife - something that fits flush against the body and maybe with a perforation in the handle that would fit a finger so one can draw it fast. What kind of steel are you using for this one? If it can take it, a differential temper would be good. As for the handle, I personally prefer cotton tape, because it's more comfortable to the hand, though nylon would no doubt last better in the field. As for the styling, try your own and see how it measures up to the traditional Japanese. If you can, add a blood groove - I'm quite partial to them Oh, speaking of blade shapes, I personally would like a blade with a fair bit of mass forward of the line of the handle, if you get my meaning (that is, the cutting edge proceeds ahead of the level of the knuckles in a chopping motion), for additional cutting power, though you may have to change the point style if you want to retain penetrating power.
I'm looking forward to how this turns out
Quote: Ah, I see. Speaking of blade shapes, what's the difference between a hollow grind and a flat grind? It seems that the former is preferred for strength, whereas the latter is preferred for sharpness.
Actually, it's the other way around. A hollow grind is preferred for slicing and a flat grind is preferred for chopping and other activities that require less finess. here's a link to a site that shows it a bit more graphically http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/sharpsing3.jpg
Quote: What kind of steel are you using for this one?
5160 spring steel. It's strong, easy to obtain, and it can hold an edge. Also, I'm afraid I can be rather abusive to my knives, so in the extreme case that I might ever bend it or chip it, I can repair it without weakening the blade too much.
Quote: As for the handle, I personally prefer cotton tape, because it's more comfortable to the hand, though nylon would no doubt last better in the field. As for the styling, try your own and see how it measures up to the traditional Japanese.
I think I'm actually either going to make my own Micarta (Layered fabric with an epoxy and then pressed together, makes a slab kinda like wood) or else obtain a piece of ray skin and use a traditional japanese wrap. Though i'm still not sure, I might just end up going back to the nylon parachord. It all really depends on what kind of blade profile I come up with and what I think would look best with it. If I ever get this project started I'll post a pic of the unfinished blade and maybe get some opinions on what would look best.
I'm actually in the process of looking for a decent, but cheap grinder. Once I find that I'll get all the other materials and see what kind of monster I can create. :twisted:>
Post: Dirty_Irishman:
Karambit! That's all I have to say.>
Post: PunchDrunk:
I'm partial to the Steve Corkum design that he's licensed to CRKT under the name "First Strike"
http://www.crkt.com/frststrk.html
When they started, they were using AUS-6 Steel (not my first choice) and are now using 440A (definitely not my first choice). If you want to get the knife in 1050 with a real harmon line from claying you can pay Steve over three hundred bucks for his effort.
That having been said, I keep two of them (the older ones in AUS-6) around. One is for throwing, and was never modified from the factory edge.
The second was sharpened by a friend of mine (I should never be allowed near sharpening stones due to my excellent record of destroying fine cuttlery). This same friend has made some wooden copies of the First Strike shape for training purposes.
That having been said, the size and balance are excellent, the weight is substantial without being clumsy. The pommel will do substantial damage on it's own, and the feel is excellent.
Just my two cents.>
Post: Gazelle:
Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn, I like your wordy bit underneath.
Nbotary, why am i not surprised that you prefer curved knives? It's not like i expected it or anything, but when i read it i was like, 'yes, that sounds about right.' Why? I haven't the foggiest idea.
I'm afraid i know nothing about knives so i can't help you, or add 'my two cents' (no offence intended).>
Post: PunchDrunk:
Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn,
As a former cutco hawker, I have a bit of insight to that. A flat grind basically looks like the letter "V".
The hollow grind basically looks like a quarter round in wood working.
You are correct that a flat grind is tough, and a hollow grind keeps metal out of the way of the cutting edge. There is also a concave grind which looks like a hemisphere cut out of each side of the blade just above the edge. That also helps break suction and leaves the edge free to do it's job.>
Post: nbotary:
Gazelle - I haven't posted in this thread yet... I believe you have my avatar confused with Tease...
I'm actually a little surprised that Vladimir hasn't weighed in on this discussion yet...
Anyway to address the subject at hand...
Think Rambo, First Blood III. Don't forget the matches, sawblade, and compass in the handle!!! You can never go wrong with a Rambo knife...>
Post: Gazelle:
Tease hasn't even posted in this topic, and i never mentioned his name. Although, i will admit that i have to look twice at each to make sure i distinguish them. However, in this case i think you yourself need to take a slightly better look at the page!
By the way, hope everyone had a good Valentine's day.>
Post: Hengest:
In nbotary's defence, he hadn't posted on the thread; Tease did.
I'm not really up on tactical knives, but I swear by my seax. Why mess about with a karambit when you can hack their hands off at the wrist?! :twisted:>
Post: Gazelle:
Apologies, when i was flicking through the people who had posted, i must have accidently not have scrolled up far enough, and i missed Tease's name. But i still didn't mention him in my post.>
Post: XmattyX:
would you guys mind posting soem basic steps to makeing a once piece knife>
Post: samurai6string:
when you talked about curved knives, TTT posted about curved knives, not Nbot.>
Post: PunchDrunk:
If you are cheep @$$ cuttlery of Nowhere Mass... then the answer is you blank the suckers out of a lousey grade of 200 Stainless.
If you are one step above, then you blank them and pass them over a grinding wheel.
Joe average knife maker out there uses J420 (softer than 440) and does a decent job of putting an edge on it.
If anyone uses 440, but doesn't say 440C, avoid it. 440A and 440B are too brittle for the strength of the steel.
Of course, any of the assumes that the knife maker actually does some tempering after the knife has been blanked out. Cold Steel uses 420J2, but they harden it up to the standard 56-58 Rockwells so that it's on par with the high end Henkles or Cutco 440C.
My rule:
440c at 57-60 Rockwells for the kitchen (does a great job of holding an edge).
420-J2 for throwing (The exception is that Cold Steel makes the True Flight thrower in Carbon V which stands up to lots of use).
If you want a killer knife, ATS-34 or Crucible Steel is great if the blade is very thick. Benchmade has been known to use these.
Carbon Steel is great for blades, but rusts like an SOB. 1095 is the most common variant. I saw some guys making throwing knives out of it (I'm assuming from old lawn mower blades). If you want to use it for general purpose knives, people typically treat it with some sort of coating.
Cold Steel has some good articles at: http://www.coldsteel.com/articles1.html
Benchmade does some really wild customer service things, and provides some good info on Steel:
http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/materials.asp
And if you want to see some REALLY pretty steel...
http://www.twistednickel.com/damascus.htm
The guys over at Twisted Nickel make real (300 layer) Damascus with 1095 Carbon Steel and Nickel. Check out the prices on the finished product, and you'll see why it's not common.
And if you want to see some of the Corkum stuff, this is a good link:
http://www.bladeart.com/artists/steve_corkum/steve_corkum.htm
Check the prices and see why "Joe Average" doesn't buy good knives.>
Post: nbotary:
John - is there something you're not telling us during our Tuesday workouts??? 8O>
Post: PunchDrunk:
Like most guys, I tried to learn how to throw knives at one point in my childhood... I failed miserably. As an adult, I was lucky enough to meet someone who is truly skilled at it and also an outstanding teacher.
After spending several hours digging up his yard to retrieve his knives that I'd lost in (under) the grass, I opted to build my own target and buy some knives. At that time I did some research.
I might not have taken up the sport if he had told me that EVERYTHING in knife throwing is a consumable item. The targets have to be rebuilt as they get chewed up. I've wrecked and repaird knife edges many times, lost knives under grass, and snapped a couple of knives in two where the tang meets the blade.
All in all, it's MUCH more fun than darts! But don't get attached to your first set of knives or take too much pride in your first target (trust me, you'll be replacing them).>
Post: nbotary:
Something tells me that mowing your lawn has become an extreme sport!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:>
Post: PunchDrunk:
You'd think so, but when they go under the grass, they go WAY under the grass. You can walk on them for months and never bump into anything sharp.>
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