usa karate
Original Poster: Lu_Bu
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 16-09-2004, 16:46
Orginal Post: Lu_Bu: i hope im not offending any one when i say, USA karate dojos suck. There trainings are not official, they don't teach any specific art of Karate. Just crappy karate. Tell me im i on to somthing or am i misled.
McDojo? / Tools? / Rednecks?
Original Poster:
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 12-08-2004, 17:39
Orginal Post: : [url http://www.toddweeksmovies.com/Video%20Samples.htm[/url
real karate
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 10-08-2004, 04:02
Orginal Post: bamboo: http://www.realkarate.com/instructor.htm
I would love to have one of these places in my city. How do people get fooled by this crap?
Some advice to "soke", at least learn to hold the damned sword if your going to post a pic of yourself on the web and claim a 10th dan!
useless prat! If any of you guys or ladies here on FA learn from him or his "teachers" (and they are famous) please do yourself a favour and join a mcdojo, it'll be better.
-bamboo
yet another mail order BB- amazon?
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 09-08-2004, 12:35
Orginal Post: bamboo: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587537001/104-2484395-9747911
It even comes with the blackbelt itself!
Taekwondo school-turned-Ultimate fighting school??
Original Poster: Samur-eye
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 09-08-2004, 10:33
Orginal Post: Samur-eye: I dont know when or how it happened. One day there was a TKD school in my town. today I find out its a Pankration and kickboxing school with monthly MMA competitions. Huh?
In fact, the instructor of the Arlington, WA branch (Landon Showalter) is fighting Dennis Hallman (UFC fighter) next month. to see if this teacher was a legit fighter, I went to www.Sherdog.com and sure enough, his name is there.
Anyway, here is the link. I might go and compete in sept. 25th. never done it before, so, it might be fun.
http://www.21mainstreet.com/pearsonsma/
Shaolin Kenpo Karate?
Original Poster: Kyorgi
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 31-07-2004, 02:53
Orginal Post: Kyorgi: I was passing by some town on my way to the ocean this weekend when I noticed a school that goes by the name Morningstar Shaolin Kenpo Karate, at first I didnt think much of it untill I thouhgt it about Shaolin? Karate? Chinese? Japanese?......I think its fake, but just want to find out.
police tested?
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 08-07-2004, 20:27
Orginal Post: bamboo: 
http://www.streetdefense.com
I can't believe that this "founder" can really fool anyone with pics like this one.
-bamboo
Secret Ninja Society
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 18-06-2004, 20:12
Orginal Post: bamboo: http://www.ninjasecretsociety.com/
Theres also a federation you can join :lol: .
-bamboo
Dim Mak vs BJJ (video)
Original Poster: pats0
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 16-06-2004, 00:10
Orginal Post: pats0: This is a new video from bullshido.com
Dim Mak
"Description: From Fox Chicago's news segment on a local, George Dillman trained martial arts instructor who claims he can knock people out without touching them. It works great on all of his students, but when he attempts to use it on BJJ students from another dojo, and even the reporter herself, hilarity ensues."
Note: Its Real Media. If you don't have/want to download Real Media Player you can get Real Alternative to allow Real Media files to be played with standard video programs at http://www.k-litecodecpack.com/
counte dante
Original Poster: monkeypalm
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 15-06-2004, 23:49
Orginal Post: monkeypalm: http://countdante.com/home/welcome.html
the teacher of ashida kim, and originator of the teh d34d7y Dance of Death!
go to the archives and check out the video clip, as well as the out of this world press clippings.
Your comments on this school.
Original Poster: dscott
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 14-06-2004, 12:35
Orginal Post: dscott: http://www.blazingsunfitness.com/index.htm
Let me know what you think. It sort of looks like a McDojo to me but then again it looks legitimate.
How would you judge this school?
Original Poster: BLACK PANTA
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 31-05-2004, 23:52
Orginal Post: BLACK PANTA: I will not as of yet disclose the name of this McDojo, but I called them just for the fun of it. I personally dont like this school. I called in and got to speak to the "Saiko Shihan". I asked him about his school and what they train. They "teach" Kung Fu ("a Hung Gar "RELATED" style), Aikijujutsu, Tai Chi, Kickboxing, Karate and Yoga. I then asked him about his Lineage and he told me that i "should come in to find out". I was really pressing on the lineage of the Aikijujutsu. He didnt want to say unless I came in.
These are some quotes that he said while I was talking to him and asking him questions.
"Kempo doesn't exist"
"Shorinji Kempo is a cult"
"we are the official school of the Police force"
"We're the only legitimate Martial Arts school in Toronto, we have no need for posturing"
"If you are in bad health, we don't want you to train here"
These are actual quotes from the Shihan's mouth. He was also apprehsive to tell me in the call that I was actually speaking to the Shihan.
During the call he was also very insulting towards the other schools in the Toronto area. Extremely insulting I may say. He wasnt brave enough to name schools but he said that all the other schools are fake and his is the only real one. I also asked him if it was a Mixed Martial arts school and he said no, even though they teach a mix of martial arts in the damn school.
Tell me what would you all think if you heard all this on an inquiry call.
Oh yeah the "Shihan" is also the owner and founder of the organization
crystals, telekinesis and martial arts
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 25-05-2004, 18:08
Orginal Post: bamboo: http://www.rvscience.com/bsrie/martial.htm
I can't tell if its a joke or not.
-bamboo
I personally clocked the SPEED MAN doing 18.3 hits/second!
Original Poster: monkeypalm
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 10-05-2004, 00:40
Orginal Post: monkeypalm: www.thespeedman.com
good for a laugh!
another Mcdojo revealed!
Is this a fake MCdojo/teacher ?: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 09-05-2004, 20:12
Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Is this a fake MCdojo/teacher ?
JKDnWngTsun
Ok im happy that ive finally been able to find a sifu within my area. His name is Sifu Alton Miller, he teaches wing chun. I'd like to know if any of you know if what he teaches is real or not. He seems to come from a good line of instructors, but yet i have never heard of him. His site doesent even put what system/type of wing chun he teaches! http://www.cantonwingchun.com/ ao ahead and check for yourselves. Please let me know as soon as possible. I want to see him for his monday class.
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Crap.......
If you think that its a McDojo....it probably is.
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MrApollinax
I took a look at the fees for the classes. It seems that they are pretty good $75/mo or 100$/quarter. HOWEVER you have to read and make sure that you notice the contract says you have to sign-up for a ONE YEAR commitment! SO you are obligated to pay out $900-$1200/year if you decide to train with this school. Up front contracts like this make me warry so I'd watch out. Perhaps his style and facility require this but if he doesn't let you at least watch a class or participate in a class to see what he has to offer I would be very warry of that school.
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JKDnWngTsun
Im going to watch a class today actually. What types of questions should i ask him? and what types of responses should i be looking for ?
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*Gong*Sao*
Ask if they spar regularly and what they think about cross training. Those two answers will tell you a lot about the school.
Also: this isn't very reliable, since I couldn't really tell anything about the school from the pictures, but most McKwoons will be of or at least claim Yip Man lineage for the name recognition. That this school is Yuen Kay San is probably a good sign.
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JKDnWngTsun
hmm, i looked at the rules of conduct they had posted, and it said that no other martial arts are to be practiced in class unless asked to do so.
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dscott
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a McDojo. It just means that he wants to teach strictly Wing Chun. He might understand the other Dojos that teach different styles in one class but he may only want to teach wing chun. Just my opinion though.
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EvilScott
My school is far from a McDojo, but my Sifu respectfully asks us to let him meet/check out anyone we cross train with.
The only thing that says 'McDojo' to me is the year-long contract. Otherwise it looks like a good WC school. Reminds me a bit of my own. Just see if they can provide what you want out of MA (ie. fighting instruction, traditionalism, etc)
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*Gong*Sao*
I didn't mean that they should teach multiple arts. What I mean is that you should be wary of any instructor who tells you that you don't need to learn multiple arts, or worse that you shouldn't.
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Any experiences with these people?: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster:
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 30-04-2004, 05:14
Orginal Post: : Any experiences with these people?
bamboo
Does this place look decent or mcdojo like?
http://www.fangshendo.com/
I found the prices a little high.
-bamboo
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jng44
it looks like a mcdojo because of the LARGE FONT advertising a free month. Although the philosophy is against katas, the web layout looks exactly like popups that piss me off.
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CreativeFighter
Mcdojo all the way. Number one: It's called a system of Kung Fu, not recognized by anyone except the founder.
2) It is supposedly "the most efficient style of combat ever taught" Thats bull
3) It is supposedly a system of kung fu, yet they take elements from Japanese arts and Indian meditation techniques.
4) It is obviously only for show, "fire-walking" lol
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gong|fu|disciple
What is this world coming to! This is like the next generation McDojo...the McDojo that attacks other forms of the McDojo to make itself look less like a McDojo! Brilliant marketing strategy. These articles were especially hillarious...
Who else wants cheerful, disciplined kids with high self-esteem? (LOL...omg thats too much)
How to parent your child successfully to Black Sash
When they start targeting the parents like that, they've found that their quarterly profit margins increased by a significant percentage because kids got signed up for classes even if they didn't want them! Turns out their parents just wanted cheerful, disciplined kids instead of whatever they were before the magic of FANGSHENDO!!!
*cue vomiting*
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MA dude
It says you have to join another program to spar
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bamboo
Thanks everyone.
I know what to look for in a japanese art based mcdojo but have no idea in terms of kung-fu styles.
-bamboo
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Youve gotta be kiddin me
Original Poster: SenseiMak
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 28-04-2004, 23:24
Orginal Post: SenseiMak: http://www.villari.com/
if this guys not a joke i dont know who is
Top Secret Training, everyone!
Original Poster: 8LimbsScientist
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 28-04-2004, 03:24
Orginal Post: 8LimbsScientist: http://www.topsecrettraining.com
Enjoy!
Lineage: Essential to becoming a good martial artist?
Original Poster: Judge Pen
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 19-04-2004, 20:57
Orginal Post: Judge Pen: Can you be a good martial artist if the style you practice has a nebulous lineage or history?
Ancient McDojos: Old Forum Topics
Original Poster:
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 03-04-2004, 04:29
Orginal Post: : Ancient McDojos
thebgbb
I know that we stick to the "it's not the art, it's the fighter" line, but I was just thinking about something today that might lead us to believe otherwise.
I totally believe that, if someone learns only from a McDojo, then they will be unable to fight effectively using the McTechniques.
Let's assume that there are McDojos out there today. Generation after generation learns these McTechniques, and they continue to spread it around. It's not unreasonable to say that 400 years from now there will be many schools that can trace their lineage back to these McDojos, and that they will be McDojos themselves.
Now, with that it mind, isn't it reasonable to say that there could have been McDojos and McKwoons throughout China and Japan for over 400 years? And if that is the case, it should be reasonable to say that an art is a McArt, full of McTechniques, and that it is ridiculous to use it today. If that is the case, some of these TMA's really could be worthless.
Now, my goal is not to turn this into a TMA vs MMA thread. There are some TMA's out there that have proven themselves in the battlefields and in the gyms, and we already know that they are effective.
That being said, are there any "TMAs" that you have learned/observed that you believe trace their origins back to a McDojo/McKwoon?McDojang? Personally, I think monkey kung fu traces back to a McKwoon (At least Paulie Zink's monkey kung fu). I have a hard time believing that any of those techniques are useful in battle, in the street, or on the mat.
What are some of your opinions? By the way, I'm giving a pre-emptive "shut the fock up" to triangle, or Pinky, or whatever he goes by now.
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*Gong*Sao*
The forum seems to have eaten my previous post, so if I double posted that's why. What I basically said is that I think that 400 years ago if someone had found out that the sensei across the street was teaching McKarate, he would have gone over there and kicked the offender's ass himself. I'm not trying to say that this theory is impossible, but it seems unlikely to me. There may be a couple of arts like this (like monkey kung fu perhaps), but I doubt there are more than maybe one or two.
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MA dude
I don't think mcdojos are ancient I think they are a modern creation since now martial arts are more well known and can be marketed.
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Stg
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by MA dude
I don't think mcdojos are ancient I think they are a modern creation since now martial arts are more well known and can be marketed.
________________________________________
exactly,it's an easy scam made to whore the average know-little-about-ma person out of thier money, using lines like "learn to be fit quickly you'll feel great" or "learn to break a man's arm in X amount of time",because the people don't know ths is bullcrap. this imo is due what ma dude said,they can market thier lies to peple on a mass scale with ads and such,back in the day this wasn't a probability,you know?
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setsu nin to
[b thebgbb[/b
In my opinion moust important is fighter as person, as himself. You may know all best techniques, but you will lose fight if you dont know when and how to use them. You also have to know how to improvise, often you will have to start with one and finish with other echnique...
That are just some of reasons why is fighter moust important. But techniques are same important. If you are less good fighter but you have better techniques you may win the fight too. You youst have to know how and when to use them.
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craazyphil
In the old days a style's popularity was based on its reputation on the street or battlefield. Schools often fought each other to prove there techniques. I believe that McTechniques didn't come about until people started teaching the martial arts without ever using them to fight. They learn and then they teach, but they never use their skills. This is especially true in America because laws limit our freedom to hold fighting competitions, that and people here are generally pussies. Thus, the teacher has no way to understand what they are teaching. That's why you should only learn self defense from someone who's been in alot of street fights.
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setsu nin to
craazyphil
You are right. There is many instructors, Senseis, Sifus or what every you whant to call them who dont have any experience in any caind of fight. In my opinion you cant teach martial arts if you dont have any experience in fight. And the worst combination in my opinion is when someone widouth any experience teach McTechniques.
There is to many video Senseis today. You whant to earn some money and you buy few martial arts videos learn techniques and open McDojo. Only thing what you need is some SF comercial something like "I learned martial arts from moust powerful Sensei...", "on the East learned all secarets of..." and kid stories like that. You will always finde few kids who will pay you for that SF stories.
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Mcdojo
Original Poster: 4
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 31-03-2004, 23:05
Orginal Post: 4: Whilst looking for ma schools in my area i came across lots of kick boxing/family self-defence class's. but one was sooo bad, I can't remember the web site but when I turned up I was Promised a belt every 3 months as long as I trained at least 2 hours a week, and under the specile/very expencive programme i would be black belt in under 18 months garante. I don't know much about Kick boxing but that sounds a bit fast !
Shaolin Do (Official Thread): Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 31-03-2004, 03:31
Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Shaolin Do (Official Thread)
Thaddru
Hello everyone
I am Jademonkeystudent's sifu, he has kept me informed of alot of the goings on in this message board, which has proven to be very good for him. He's had a lot of questions since he joined the forum. In fact I suggested to him and the entire class to seek out a good forum and find out what all is said about our 'infamous' Shaolin Do controversy.
He has requested that I take part in this discussion and hopefully be able to answer some of the questions and criticisms. I may not be able to have a final definitive answer to some of them, but I will do what I can to find a credible and common sense answer if I am at all able. Since I have joined the forum on page 5, I'll leave the board open to any of your immediate concerns regarding our style, and may in the future address some of the posts I read in the earlier pages.
Some of my posts can be very lengthy so I'll try to answer simply and honestly. My only request is that the discussion please remain civil and respectful and that WHEN any credible information is presented on a subject that it be given a sincere and honest consideration.
Last edited by Thaddru on Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total
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Thaddru
First of all I'd like to get to know everyone, and digging through profiles is very time consuming, and usually a waste since most don't ever fill them out If any of you wouldn't mind, please give some background about yourself, rank, years training, style, if your an instructor or student, where your from, etc. I'll start with myself:
I have been studying martial arts for around 20 years, I have earned two black belts in two seperate styles. A 1st degree in TKD, and a 4th degree in SD. I am a senior head student/instructor of Master Bob Green in our area, I have been studing with him and a part of the Shaolin Do system for the last 13 years. I have also had experience training and sparring with Aikido, Hapkido, and some JJ/Judo practitioners/teachers that I'm very good friends with in my area. I'm also a USAG certified Gymnastics coach levels 1-10 and USTA/AAU Power Tumbling coach.
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zefff
Hello Sifu Thaddru,
I havent really been following this thread but as I jumped in not long ago and asked some questions I will oblige you and hope that you can fill us all in. Welcome to the forum.
Location - UK
Arts - Warriors Eskrima, Yip Man Wing Chun
Rank - none
Years training - a long time but only 3 serious years of study.
So down to business...
Can I ask you if Shaolin do is any good and why?
Do you train with weaponry?
Why do you advocate forum chat to your students?
cheers!
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bamboo
Welcome Thaddru.
My back ground is 7 years aikido, I currently practice aikikai style within the ASU. I am a senior student and assistant instructor. I have also experience in judo and actively practice jojutsu.
I really have no questions concerning the efficiency of your art as I believe that can only be experienced first hand. My question is concerning facts presented by the founder of your art. I simply cannot understand why the lineage presented cannot be verified anywhere else other than within the Shaolin do organization.
I asked Jademonkey why as the holder and grandmaster of a tradition that has all of its roots in china, why there are no verifyiable schools in China? He told me that there was but not under the name Shaolin do. My question then is: What is the name of the art in China and why has it not retained its name when transferred overseas?
I thank you for your time and assure you that any conversation we have (you and I) will be of civil and amicable nature.
-Bamboo
(Edited for spelling)
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Ninja Kl0wn
My background is on my member page, red button at the bottom of this post.
When looking at Shaolin-Do, one of the things that throws up a major red flag in my mind is the sheer number of forms. What is the reasoning behind having that many forms? Artistic preservation? Is it, like in most styles, to teach the basic principles and mechanics of the style? And if the latter is the reasoning, is Shaolin-Do so complex that it is necessary to have 900+ forms?
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EvilScott
I really appreciate you taking time to answer our questions!
I have currently study Wing Chun (Traditional lineage, ie. Sigong William Cheung), with some work with Kali and Jun Fan/JKD. I also study mixed grappling independently, and have studied a number of things (including Shaolin Kung Fu) in previous years.
My question was regarding your lineage family tree - do you have a complete one? Do you have an image or document of it? Can you share some of the principles that govern Shaolin Do? Is footwork emphasized?
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Thaddru
Thanks guys for responding in earnest, I hope that I can at least provide some common sense to a few things, and I don't expect to be able to satisfiy everyone all the time with what I have to say concerning these issues. I'll just do my best when possible to provide some sort of credible back up to a few things. A lot of my response too though will be my personal opinion and viewpoint of what and how we do things.
My goal in coming here is not to convince anyone that SD is everything claimed by our official website as I am not a lawyer, but I would like our discussions to at least progress into practical training tips and attitude for me, my students, and everyone else on this forum.
So I'll get busy quoting everyones concern's and my stance on those requests.
Again thank you for being earnest and open to some form of an answer.
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setsu nin to
Well if you whant me to be honest than I have to say that I dont have any respect for Shaolin Do as martial art or its practicioners as martial artists. I dont whant to lie you about any respect.
I found that Shaollin Do is fake martial art becouse many things, I belive you read them before.
So lets start.
1) Su Kong Tai Djin. I realy dont know what to say... Could you explain it to me?
2) Why Shaolin Do practicioners wear Japanese uniforms instead of Chinese?
3) Why Shaolin Do practicioners have Japanese ranks instead of Chinese.
4) Why us there so many of Japanese terms in Shaolin Do?
5) Who from Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu recognised Shaolin Do?
6) How that there is no Shaolin Do in China?
7) Why is there no more "Dojos" in Europe for example?
Also, I am not shure, but I think that there is same photo as photo of Su Kong Tai Djin in book The Body and that acording to these book he is even not Chinese. Full name of book is: "The Body - Photoworks of the Human Form" William A. Ewing.
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bamboo
quote:
My goal in coming here is not to convince anyone that SD is everything claimed by our official website as I am not a lawyer,
Can you find someone that CAN officially represent the OFFICIAL website claims? I think we can all offer opinion when needed, this is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
I can produce lineage and documentation without a lawyer, why can't shaolin do?
My other question is about the grandmaster once again: Why was his first book entitled " KARATE " if he never studied it? As well, why does he have KARATE schools if he does not do karate ?
-bamboo
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zefff
why reply without addressing points raised?...am I wasting my time here?
what is the goal of your arrival here Sifu Thaddru if not to clarify what your promotional material states?
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bamboo
Heres another one,
Su Kong Tai Djin: It says he was a monk. Why is he wearing a suit and tie? Buddhists monks wear robes, shaolin monks wear saffron robes. Even when meeting dignitaries (not that it matters to them) or heads of state. I'm pretty sure they only get two robes, no ties.
I don't care if he was afflicted with Hirsutism ,I just don't understand his attire.
-bamboo
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jademonkeystudent
this link may help answer some of your questions;
http://shaolin-do.com/pages/uniforms.shtml
wecome sifu *bow*
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Thaddru
Ok guys one at a time, I do have a job and other responsibilities I have to take of in a day, so I can't type 10,000 words a minute and post responses as quickly as I'd to.
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BLACK PANTA
with all due respect Sifu Thaddru, you haven't really answered any questions (at least not to the public's satisfaction). I believe that is where the frustration lies.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by BLACK PANTA
with all due respect Sifu Thaddru, you haven't really answered any questions (at least not to the public's satisfaction). I believe that is where the frustration lies.
I understand that, but my point is that I haven't had a chance to address a question yet....job=earn $=no time for forum...
no disrespect intended black panta
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BLACK PANTA
quote:
Originally posted by Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by BLACK PANTA
with all due respect Sifu Thaddru, you haven't really answered any questions (at least not to the public's satisfaction). I believe that is where the frustration lies.
I understand that, but my point is that I haven't had a chance to address a question yet....job=earn $=no time for forum...
no disrespect intended black panta
None taken but I speak for all of us here (i think) when we say we are anxious for your responce.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
Well if you whant me to be honest than I have to say that I dont have any respect for Shaolin Do as martial art or its practicioners as martial artists. I dont whant to lie you about any respect.
I found that Shaollin Do is fake martial art becouse many things, I belive you read them before.
I appreciate your honesty. I don't have any respect for you or your style or teacher either, you have about as much credibility as I do as far as respect goes. But if that is the case, then why do you even care to ask these questions. You will obviously have no respect for ANY answer that I may be able to provide. AND, if I were to produce some form of documented 3rd party proof of some of our claims, you most likely won't accept them, so why should I even bother to answer to your disrespectful stance? Will it make any difference to your opinion? NO. Do I care what you think about me or my art? NO. But I will answer as best I can what you ask.
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
So lets start.
1) Su Kong Tai Djin. I realy dont know what to say... Could you explain it to me?
Ok, what do you want me to explain? Why he was covered with hair? Why we're using Chewbacca in our lineage? Why we expect people to believe that he existed? What?
He had a genetic disorder call hypertrichosis lanuginosa, which causes hair to grow over parts of the body uncontrolled from birth in his case it was limited locally to his face and head. Why do we attach our lineage to this person? Well, this is what I meant by not trying to prove the official website. If you assume that this is just a picture of a medical case that we found somewhere and thought it would make a good story to base a school on, then independent research over a course of time should be able to produce the same pic from a medical library somewhere. Am I going to go to that length? NO. Are you or anyone else? NO. I can no more PROVE the existence of this man any more than you could PROVE he didn't exist. I do however have a link (if it still works) to a University of Berkely medical paper describing hypertrichosis that has a pic of Su Kong, and the sub-heading states that he was a buddhist master and nothing more, I have contacted the author of that paper but I have not heard back from him/her. But you will just say that some SD practitioner out in Cali was also a med student and used Su Kong as part of their report on genetic disorders.
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
2) Why Shaolin Do practicioners wear Japanese uniforms instead of Chinese?
3) Why Shaolin Do practicioners have Japanese ranks instead of Chinese.
4) Why us there so many of Japanese terms in Shaolin Do?
Well, it's a matter of being practical and cost conscious really. First of all way back in the '60's when Sin first started teaching in his schools, the Gi was more available, thanks to judo, and cheaper than importing chinese attire. It fits us big boned American's better than chinese attire as well, the chinese on average are smaller and weigh less than us as a result of diet and culture. Secondly, he learned from his teacher in Indonesia, his mother was chinese, his father Indonesian. The Indonesian's didn't like Chinese very well at that time and Sin's family owned a large textile plant. Sin's father would not endorse his teacher's school if they presented themselves as chinese. This was attempted and resulted in vandalism and other problems. So they decided to adopt some of the japanese methdology and terminology. Indonesia is a melting pot of language and culture, Chinese (at that time) were ridiculed and disliked, but the Japanese were respected. So if you were gonna try and open up a kwoon in town, most likely you'd get run out, beat up or burnt down. Call it a dojo, and hey no big deal, call it karate and we'll take class. Sin grew up in this environment, so he has kept with what he knows and likes. Also, I'll dig up some links I have showing shaolin monks wearing what 'look' like Gi's. No they aren't a Japanese gi, but they do resemble very heavily what we wear minus all the pretty patches and adornments
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
5) Who from Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu recognised Shaolin Do?
Abbot Shi Su Xi and current abbot Shi Yong Xin have both met with Sin The and both have given him and his students the nod to the material that Sin has presented them. As well as some of the local family master 'old guys' of their respective arts have all made comments and sent letters to Sin (which I have seen at events) stating that they appreciate the 'old ways preserved from our childhood.'[/quote
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
6) How that there is no Shaolin Do in China?
Sin learned from a Chinese man, his grandfather, his family art. He did not attend a temple, university, or kwoon in China. His teacher fled china during the turmoil of regime change and boxer rebellion. Why would there be Shaolin Do in China if it was not established and opened to the public until Ie Change Ming and his colleagues organized SD in Indonesia sometime in the late 40's early 50's? I don't think anyone is eager or ready to move to mainland China and open up a kwoon in the near future either.
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
7) Why is there no more "Dojos" in Europe for example?
No one has moved to Europe and opened any.
quote:
Originally posted by setsu nin to
Also, I am not shure, but I think that there is same photo as photo of Su Kong Tai Djin in book The Body and that acording to these book he is even not Chinese. Full name of book is: "The Body - Photoworks of the Human Form" William A. Ewing.
Very cool, I will check into this book and compare the photo with others of Su Kong and see if it is the same person. If it is Su Kong and he isn't Chinese then great, there's the proof you need to answer your complaints.
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L_Z Wong_Fei_Hung
Greetings Sifu Thaddru *Left hand Over Right*
My name Is Sifu Lucius
Yes there is Much Controversy with your Shaolin Do (which Translates into the way of Shaolin in Japanese, Cantonese, and Mandarin)
But Iam afaraid I heared of no such style, What is your lineage if you don't mind me asking?
Much Respect
Apprentice Master Lucius 27th Sucesstion
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by zefff
Hello Sifu Thaddru,
I havent really been following this thread but as I jumped in not long ago and asked some questions I will oblige you and hope that you can fill us all in. Welcome to the forum.
Location - UK
Arts - Warriors Eskrima, Yip Man Wing Chun
Rank - none
Years training - a long time but only 3 serious years of study.
So down to business...
Can I ask you if Shaolin do is any good and why?
Do you train with weaponry?
Why do you advocate forum chat to your students?
cheers!
Is SD any good and why? Well, for me it is, I have the good fortune to train with other styles and they have afforded me the chance to practice some of our techniques and methods with them. Some techniques I could pull off, others I couldn't. We traded techniques, they wanted some of the stuff I had, I learned some their principles. I think this question boils down to what a student experiences during training and what they are training for. I don't think it should be the thing where 'my style is better than your style' thing. No matter who you are, there is always someone that can kick your butt, even someone with no training what so ever. I think what we teach is sound and practical, and at least in my kwoon I don't try to bs anyone about how things happen in reality during a fight.
Yes we train with weapons, we start with a staff, then sword etc. We first the basics of the weapon, then two man drills leading to sparring. Due to insurance liability and lease restrictions and space we don't open this training up to all students who walk in the door. And no one under the age of 16 may participate without parental consent. The little guys use some really safe and light 'weapons' so they don't knock out their teeth.
I send my students to check out a forum because there are some very knowledgeable people who post on them, and I think it is a good source of information first of all. Secondly, I want them to be exposed to the criticism of our style first hand because it opens up a lot of discussion in class.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by L_Z Wong_Fei_Hung
Greeting Sifu Thaddru *Left hand Over Right*
My name Is Sifu Lucius
Yes there is Much Controversy with your Shaolin Do (which Translates into the way of Shaolin in Japanese, Cantonese, and Mandarin)
But Iam afaraid I heared of no such style, What is your lineage if you don't mind me asking?
Much Respect
Apprentice Master Lucius 27th Sucesstion
*Returns greeting*
Good to meet you Sifu Lucius. This is a topic which I'm afraid only adds to the controversy. Part of the reason due to the fact that much of our lineage is through a family succession, and has only been made open to the public this generation with Sin The. Also this family is half Indonesian, and Ie Chang Ming was an orphan I believe, so tracing down a family tree for these people would take some very dedicated and serious study.
I aplogize for not being able to provide a more thorough and recognizable lineage. But this is my lineage as it exists through the The brothers and their teachers:
Su Kong and colleagues whom I do not remember the names of, but Ie Chang Ming's main teacher was Su
|
Ie Chang Ming, Liu Su Peng, Je Jou Fu, Qui Kwong
|
Sin Kwang The, Hsiang The
|
Bob Green is my main instructor although I have trained with Sin as well.
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L_Z Wong_Fei_Hung
Sifu Thaddru
Thank You for responding
You seem to be an Honourable man, as well as a Honourable Sifu to support your Student in this forum
All the best luck to you, in this battle that lies ahead in dealing with this controversy agsinst your school, you'd make your Master proud, by promoting your style this way.
I hope we can talk more in the future
Chin Up
Aprentice Master Lucius 27th Succession
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by bamboo
Welcome Thaddru.
My back ground is 7 years aikido, I currently practice aikikai style within the ASU. I am a senior student and assistant instructor. I have also experience in judo and actively practice jojutsu.
I really have no questions concerning the efficiency of your art as I believe that can only be experienced first hand. My question is concerning facts presented by the founder of your art. I simply cannot understand why the lineage presented cannot be verified anywhere else other than within the Shaolin do organization.
I asked Jademonkey why as the holder and grandmaster of a tradition that has all of its roots in china, why there are no verifyiable schools in China? He told me that there was but not under the name Shaolin do. My question then is: What is the name of the art in China and why has it not retained its name when transferred overseas?
I thank you for your time and assure you that any conversation we have (you and I) will be of civil and amicable nature.
-Bamboo
(Edited for spelling)
Very nice to meet you Bamboo, my best friend and fellow black belt under Master Green has just recently been awarded his 2nd dan in Aikido. I love your art, I have learned a great deal of it and I really like what it has to offer. And I very much respect and appreciate your civil approach to SD, so thank you for that courtesy.
Concerning the traditional roots to China, well from my understanding about Chinese history, about the time of cultural revolution and boxer rebellion when martial arts was outlawed and many great schools and masters were persecuted and destroyed, a lot of traditional training knowledge and concepts were lost. I have an article from Kung Fu Magazine from several years ago that described this to some extent, I'll see if I still have it and get it out so everyone can read it, but it describes how a great many 'old school' masters were lost during this time period. And as a result, many of those who did survive, began teaching in secret and only to family for the most part, and that still others fled the country. I know that Ie Chang Ming fled China during this time period and established himself in Indonesia. I'm not sure about what our material if it is still being taught somewhere would be called, but this is an interesting question and I'll starting to find some kind of an answer.
I have a website address to some location I think in India? The site is a little buggy and appears incomplete. The interesting thing though it makes no claims to SD in any form, but yet has a vast majority of the forms and principles that we learn listed. I believe this is the address, let me know if it doesn't work:
http://ww.no-frills.net/shaolin.html
Check shaolin weapon, and shaolin empty hand form. That list is of the same material that we have although it is not affiliated with us that I am able to confirm.
I hate to run but I have to run out for a little bit and get some last minute things for my son's birthday party tomorrow. I'll post more later.
Last edited by Thaddru on Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by L_Z Wong_Fei_Hung
Sifu Thaddru
Thank You for responding
You seem to be an Honourable man, as well as a Honourable Sifu to support your Student in this forum
All the best luck to you, in this battle that lies ahead in dealing with this controversy agsinst your school, you'd make your Master proud, by promoting your style this way.
I hope we can talk more in the future
Chin Up
Aprentice Master Lucius 27th Succession
Many humble thanks Apprentice Master Lucius, I look forward to more discussions with you as well, your teacher must me very honored to have you as a student also.
Concerning my future battle: No one ever dedicated a noble monument to a cynic.
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Arjun
I want to reiterate what was said on the subject of shaolin previously: There is no shaolin any more . Anything claiming to be shaolin, in fact just about any other chinese style, is either wushu (performance kung fu, as Shaolin-do seems to be), or a style reconstructed from very small remnants of the older version. The latter still should not be considered a legitimate style of Kung Fu because in most cases there isnt enough left to create a style that accurately represents the title it claims to.
Your endorsement from those who now claim to be masters of Shaolin is enough proof that your style is not any more than performance kung fu. Hengest made an extremely good post on this subject in the thread questioning how effective all shaolin arts are.
My points here are simply that the Shaolin-do style claims to possess a history and lineage that isnt rightly theirs, nor even really existed in any way close to how it is described at your home base website. Furthermore every bit of evidence (the few videos, pictures and testimonials from your students, explain Shaolin-do as, while not a mcdojo, per se, but a wushu academy at best.
This said I do agree that this makes your style no better or worse than any other style, but when it comes down to tradition, unless you want the silly and demented mixture your style possesses, I would not condone it. And as far as how effective it is in the ring/street, from the evidence provided I would say not very, but then there really isnt enough data to be certain.
You have good explanations and reasoning for all of those laughable principles and traditions, but when it all boils down to it you, nor any other school, can claim to be traditional shaolin, and every endorsement and approval you claim to have gotten confirms only that you are train in a Wushu school, and your not even doing that in the modern Shaolin style.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by Arjun
I want to reiterate what was said on the subject of shaolin previously: There is no shaolin any more . Anything claiming to be shaolin, in fact just about any other chinese style, is either wushu (performance kung fu, as Shaolin-do seems to be), or a style reconstructed from very small remnants of the older version. The latter still should not be considered a legitimate style of Kung Fu because in most cases there isnt enough left to create a style that accurately represents the title it claims to.
Your endorsement from those who now claim to be masters of Shaolin is enough proof that your style is not any more than performance kung fu. Hengest made an extremely good post on this subject in the thread questioning how effective all shaolin arts are.
My points here are simply that the Shaolin-do style claims to possess a history and lineage that isnt rightly theirs, nor even really existed in any way close to how it is described at your home base website. Furthermore every bit of evidence (the few videos, pictures and testimonials from your students, explain Shaolin-do as, while not a mcdojo, per se, but a wushu academy at best.
This said I do agree that this makes your style no better or worse than any other style, but when it comes down to tradition, unless you want the silly and demented mixture your style possesses, I would not condone it. And as far as how effective it is in the ring/street, from the evidence provided I would say not very, but then there really isnt enough data to be certain.
You have good explanations and reasoning for all of those laughable principles and traditions, but when it all boils down to it you, nor any other school, can claim to be traditional shaolin, and every endorsement and approval you claim to have gotten confirms only that you are train in a Wushu school, and your not even doing that in the modern Shaolin style.
Well, I must say that is a new one I've never heard before, that we're a 'Wushu' school but we don't even do that well, props for originality anyway. Since you must the authoritative specialist on traditions and history of the 'Shaolin that doesn't exist anymore' and since therej's nothing left to really make any sense of, please explain what old REAL Shaolin was...oh waitaminute your not THE GUY that has the REAL shaolin tied up in a closet somewhere for ransom are you?
So if not enough of the 'older version' exists to constitute the creation of a viable kung fu style today how can you make a comparison of anything to anything? You basically just said that Shaolin doesn't exist anymore and as a result we wouldn't know what real shaolin was if it hit us in the head since there is nothing available to make the comparison.
We've been told that we look more like karate, tkd, or kempo but never 'wushu' in fact most of our detractors that I've talked to from elsewhere wished that we did perform more wushu inspired forms.
You seem to have everything you need to know already figured out so find some contentment in your vast array of judgemental opinion.
train hard, fight easy
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Kl0wn
My background is on my member page, red button at the bottom of this post.
When looking at Shaolin-Do, one of the things that throws up a major red flag in my mind is the sheer number of forms. What is the reasoning behind having that many forms? Artistic preservation? Is it, like in most styles, to teach the basic principles and mechanics of the style? And if the latter is the reasoning, is Shaolin-Do so complex that it is necessary to have 900+ forms?
In my opinion, the down to earth basic answer to this 900+forms thing is one of shameless self promotion and marketing, using a twist on semantics. And it's also as you have stated artistic preservation of basic principles and mechanics of the system. I frankly don't agree with making such a statement since it's silly, misleading, and lacks any sort of context.
What's not defined is exactly what is a 'form.' A form can be anything that you decide to call a form. One of our 'forms' consists of two main movements and is the beginning training of our Tan Tui set of short forms. Another example: We recently learned a monkey fist form and received as part of the instruction a nice description of the names of each section in Chinese and english. It was stated that this one set was composed of 18 forms. If you learned a Tai Chi set you may say something like, "I'm learning the Yang 24 form." Where 24 was refering to the 24 different postures used in the set. In this Monkey routine, Sin The said that it was comprised of 18 'forms.' You could substitute the word form for posture and achieve the same meaning. The 5th form/posture of the routine is called Hou Tze Tanh Chau, Monkey throws a single leg attack, and is basically one move; a single kick. The 9th form/posture is called zie sing huan ye, Monkey picks the star & exchange it for the moon, and it is comprised of three movements. The routine is really just one form with a beginning and an end but it's composed of 18 smaller forms or postures, so now I can twist the semantics and say hey I know 18 monkey forms yippee A lot of the training drills for some of the styles that we practice have small forms to them, for instance some linkage routines for different stances or fists. Or a two man set that is one routine but in two parts so that should count as two.
The sad thing about this claim is that it truly is not necessary, no one gives a big whatever about how many forms anyone know's but I guess the higher ups think it sounds impressive and will attract students wanting to learn a rediculous amount of forms. This is one of my little pet peeves with our official website.
So do we have 900 forms of very complicated and demanding routines that last for minutes? Not really, do we have a large amount of material to cover, yes, but then a lot of Chinese systems require a lot of material to be learned. To get my black belt in TKD I had to know 8 forms, a truckload of one steps (around 50 or more), some sparring, and a lot of Korean. For my black sash under my teacher, I need to know four basic weapons, and around 13 forms total including the four weapons (9 empty hand and four weapon routines). The first forms we learn had two sections/roads to them, and the last forms we learn before testing into black had 4 sections/roads. If I were to break down all that basic material into it's component parts of poetic descriptive, I could interpret the same 18 forms into around 2 or 300 'forms' or postures, but that's just too silly to worry about. Of the 18 that I have learned I have about 3 that are my favorite and suit my personality and build that I train very hard. The other's I practice and can teach but do not contain the techniques that suit my fighting style.
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jademonkeystudent
[quote="Arjun" I want to reiterate what was said on the subject of shaolin previously: There is no shaolin any more . Anything claiming to be shaolin, in fact just about any other chinese style, is either wushu (performance kung fu, as Shaolin-do seems to be), or a style reconstructed from very small remnants of the older version. The latter still should not be considered a legitimate style of Kung Fu because in most cases there isnt enough left to create a style that accurately represents the title it claims to.**
this is ridiculous, have you ever studied any shaolin art? you do realize that youve taken a very outlandish theory and stated it as a fact, right? you do not know (or have any evidence) that shaolin no longer exists, so dont say that you do.
**Your endorsement from those who now claim to be masters of Shaolin is enough proof that your style is not any more than performance kung fu. Hengest made an extremely good post on this subject in the thread questioning how effective all shaolin arts are.**
his endorsement prooved that shaolin-do is true shaolin. how does his endorsement indicate that shaolin-do is performace kung fu? quit stating stupid things plz.
**My points here are simply that the Shaolin-do style claims to possess a history and lineage that isnt rightly theirs, nor even really existed in any way close to how it is described at your home base website. Furthermore every bit of evidence (the few videos, pictures and testimonials from your students, explain Shaolin-do as, while not a mcdojo, per se, but a wushu academy at best.**
first off, how do you know that the lineage master sin claims isnt true, alot of the lineage is history master sin has experienced throughout his lifetime so then how can you claim it isnt his? secondly, a few videos dont mean anything, ive seen some pretty gay MMA videos, but does that mean all MMA are bad? no. master sin teaches shaolin-do as a combat art not for performance. he specificly states on the website that if your interest is in performing, then to seek your training elsewhere because this is an "art of survival, not of sport".
**This said I do agree that this makes your style no better or worse than any other style, but when it comes down to tradition, unless you want the silly and demented mixture your style possesses, I would not condone it. And as far as how effective it is in the ring/street, from the evidence provided I would say not very, but then there really isnt enough data to be certain.**
we dont care if you condone it, your not an authority on the subject. your right there isnt enough data.
**You have good explanations and reasoning for all of those laughable principles and traditions, but when it all boils down to it you, nor any other school, can claim to be traditional shaolin, and every endorsement and approval you claim to have gotten confirms only that you are train in a Wushu school, and your not even doing that in the modern Shaolin style.**
i challenge you to name one form or techniqe that we have that isnt combat oriented? also, if we are wushu then why do we practice chi kung and sparring?
Last edited by jademonkeystudent on Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by bamboo
Heres another one,
Su Kong Tai Djin: It says he was a monk. Why is he wearing a suit and tie? Buddhists monks wear robes, shaolin monks wear saffron robes. Even when meeting dignitaries (not that it matters to them) or heads of state. I'm pretty sure they only get two robes, no ties.
I don't care if he was afflicted with Hirsutism ,I just don't understand his attire.
-bamboo
Ok so was this picture taken before or after he was in the temple? If it was taken AFTER the shaolin temples were raised, then it would have been illegal to go around in your monks robes lest you be imprisoned or killed? The pic was taken after he left the temple. And if you happened to meet someone interested in taking a shot of this new fangled thing called a picture you would want to wear an appropriate attire. Since your saffron robes are going to get you in deep trouble you wear the next best thing a suit and tie, most likely provided by the photographer.
Take the pic in it's context, it was taken at a time in history when the camera was a fairly new invention and not too many photographers where running around taking family portraits or anything. Su Kong traveled China after leaving the temple along with some of his students, they encountered a photographer and had these pictures taken. I have seen other photos of Su and I really wish the The's would release some of these as they are interesting and I'm sure they'd give everyone a sleu of more conjecture and debate.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by bamboo
quote:
My goal in coming here is not to convince anyone that SD is everything claimed by our official website as I am not a lawyer,
Can you find someone that CAN officially represent the OFFICIAL website claims? I think we can all offer opinion when needed, this is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
I can produce lineage and documentation without a lawyer, why can't shaolin do?
My other question is about the grandmaster once again: Why was his first book entitled " KARATE " if he never studied it? As well, why does he have KARATE schools if he does not do karate ?
-bamboo
Producing lineage and documentation concerning a style is a seperate activity from representing the management and presentation of claims on a website. For that matter everyone here is offering opinion even when it is not needed as a matter of fact.
The facts are I do not administer the official website, therefore I do not need to claim the ability to represent what is stated on it. There are other shaolin do websites out there that state different things, and some are out there that are not even affiliated with Sin anymore, they are breakaways on their own terms now, but still teaching the same material and claims.
And we can produce all the lineage and documentation in the world, it will not do anything to satisfy anyone critical of SD. Most of the time everyone screams for this stuff and then if it's presented, it gets torn apart by every sherlock holmes on the board about how it's a bunch of crap or 'opinion.'. Heck, it'd take a lawyer to present some people with anything that would be taken serious. Also, on the occasion that 3rd party verification has been brought to bear in our favor on other forums, everyone either ignores it completly, or grasps at straws to say it isn't valid.
I could produce lineage and documentaton on the history of Aikido. That whole art is very well documented and available for anyone to research. It is still fairly young as a martial art, comes from a culture well known for it's disciplined attention to structure and organization. And has a very good system to account for the progression of the style. You may even be able to produce your lineage back to O sensei in very short degrees. Contrast that with over a billion Chinese people with two major different dialects in their language, over 80,000 characters for their language, a history of turmoil emperical revolt, temple persecution/burning, and being closed to the rest of the world decades after the communist regime took power. Richard Nixon opened up China to world markets in the early seventies, and then the world got to see what Bruce Lee had been talking about for years.
When you refer to the grandmaster's first book titled karate, which first book are you talking about? I'm aware of a couple of books Sin has done but none that were ever published and called karate. He had a book published and distributed around 1994 but it was not called karate. What's the copyright date and who is the publisher? If it came out in the '60's who would buy a book called Shaolin at that time? Brandname recognition helps relatability with your students.
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DeStRuCtIkOn
quote:
Originally posted by Thaddru
Since you must the authoritative specialist on traditions and history of the 'Shaolin that doesn't exist anymore' and since therej's nothing left to really make any sense of, please explain what old REAL Shaolin was...oh waitaminute your not THE GUY that has the REAL shaolin tied up in a closet somewhere for ransom are you?
Hi, I'm Kris. Many people also call me Des since they don't want to type out my whole nickname here. If I may be so bold as to respond to something concerning my fellow moderator, Arjun, I will go ahead and clear the confusion up.
When the Communists overtook China, they outlawed a good number of traditional martial arts, replacing them with what they called "Wushu" or 'military arts." This included the highly lauded Shaolin Temple and other such establishments. Wushu - being a uniformed, homogenized style butchered from a myriad of arts - then became more of a performance peice for practicioners to show off how technically talented they were rather than develop real combative skills. Thus, modern Shaolin training consists of Communist Wushu, not of the time honored traditional kung fu we'd all like it to be.
Arjun was stating that for modern Shaolin monks or whomever was consulted to endorse Shaolin-Do is a testiment to Shaolin-Do's lack of similarity to the original Shaolin teachings.
If any of this seems outlandish, fantastical or otherwise idiotic to you, I'd suggest grabbing a history book before reaching for a martial arts book.
quote:
So if not enough of the 'older version' exists to constitute the creation of a viable kung fu style today how can you make a comparison of anything to anything?
That's more or less the whole backing to the "controversy." How can you - Shaolin Do - make a comparison, by virtue of your name and claimed lineage, to the Shaolin Temple? We have no proof and no reason to believe such a claim. I'm sure you're a rational enough person to understand skepticism. Especially in light of your admission that your style appears more like TKD or Karate, what makes you think we should believe you are a Chinese born art?
I have no interest in solving this matter, honestly, as I have no interest in studying in your schools. What I do works fine for me, if what you do works fine for you, then we should both be happy for each other, right? The only reason I stepped in on this issue is because you carry a tone that seems to convey a disbelief that others may not agree with you or believe the claims of your forebearers.
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Arjun
Jademonkeystudent: I will reply when you can formulate a coherent structure of statements and do a little research yourself. My brief and admitidly unorganized tidbit of Shaolin history wasnt near as eloqant as Hengest's was, but it is nonetheless fact. It is not a theory. There was only one Shaolin temple and it was destroyed. Outlandish theory? Again, hardly a theory, and only outlandish to one who is a stranger to the facts.
Jademonkeystudent, you have insulted me and been straight out rude, just because you take my well thought, decently composed, and thuroughly researched argument and call it stupid, doesnt make it so. Your buddy here possesses enough intelligence to represent your style in a semi-respectful manner, you however do not. In fact you are doing nothing but making it worse, I am tempted to delete your post since I am embarrased for you because of it, but everyone will throw a fit so I have decided against it.
Thaddru: Do not put words in my mouth. Never did I say that 'It is impossible to determine exactly what Shaolin was'. I merely said that there was one Shaolin temple and it was destroyed. Shaolin does not exist any more in any manner close to the way it did before.
I do agree that you look more like Karate and TKD in your movements. You are stiff, your techniques do not flow, and you dont teach the fluidity that other Wushu academies do. But in theory and for the most part Wushu is the correct label. Yeah yeah, I know you guys do point sparring or slow-sparring or something similar and you use the heavy bag for ten minutes a day, and whatever else... But that doesnt do it for me. You can take a TKD mcdojo, throw in some bag work and some shitty sparring and call it a real art good for self defense, but it doesnt make it so.
My 'vast array of judgmental opinion' (a phrase that, by the way, doesnt make any kind of sense), might at times be harsh and stubborn, but it is well informed, thuroughly thought out, very well researched, and never set in stone, despite the stubborness. If you want to respond to my posts and defend your school by attacks against my personal self then so be it, but it speaks for you and your school, since you are here representing it.
Kris gave some advice to Thaddru that a lot of other people in this discussion should follow. If you want to debase or defend the lineage and history of a certain style you should grab some books and do some research. Hopefully Hengest would drop by and give a brief summary of his historical knowledge in this subject.
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jademonkeystudent
ok arjun, i will chill out, its just that no matter how many times you call my style mcdojo, fake, or wushu i will still refute what you say because i have had personal experience that prooves to me that shaolin-do is combative, very combative so for a guy who has never taken classes there to tell me its wushu is absurd, but i will give you respect in the rest of my posts.
his endorsement prooved shaolin-do because the monk said that shaolin-do preserved THE OLD WAYS FROM OUR CHILDHOOD. modern wushu had not been practiced hardly at all 'in his childhood' and wushu is certainly not "the old ways" that he was speaking of.
i will reply more later but i gotta go now, see ya
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setsu nin to
Wow, here is so many new posts, I dont know where to start...
Thaddru
I will start from begining...
As you said job=earn $=no time for forum...
Thats just what I am saying all the time. Its all about money. Thats how it goes with every McDojo.
Now about your reply to my post.
I appreciate your honesty.
Ofcourse you dont, there is no need for these patetic things.
I don't have any respect for you or your style or teacher either, you have about as much credibility as I do as far as respect goes.
You dont respect my style? Thats nice. You dont even know which is my style and you dont respect it? Did you learn that in Shaoli Do? Or you become nervous, did anyone teach you that you have to say calm?
But if that is the case, then why do you even care to ask these questions.
Ofcourse that I dont care about nonsens that you writte here, I just whant that people here see that Shaolin Do is just one big McDojo.
You will obviously have no respect for ANY answer that I may be able to provide.
If I dont have respec for you, how I can have respect for your answers?
AND, if I were to produce some form of documented 3rd party proof of some of our claims, you most likely won't accept them, so why should I even bother to answer to your disrespectful stance?
I will except any prof, but real proof not tipical McDojo story.
He had a genetic disorder call hypertrichosis lanuginosa...
Thank you I know whats hypertrichosis lanuginosa.
I can no more PROVE the existence of this man any more than you could PROVE he didn't exist.
Ofcourse that I dont whant to prove that he didnt existed or something like that. Ofcourse that he was rela person, I dont doubt it that. But I doubt that he was Shaolin monk and hadmaster of Shaolin.
http://beifan.com/shaolin-monk/059album02/01-01h.html
Here is photo of Shaolin monk so can you compare it whith photo of Su Kong Tai Djin? Can you finde any diference?
But you will just say that some SD practitioner out in Cali was also a med student and used Su Kong as part of their report on genetic disorders.
Wow you see people minds? You learn that in Shaolin Do?
First of all way back in the '60's when Sin first started teaching in his schools, the Gi was more available,...
Oh pls, he couldnt finde Chinese uniform or someone who will made it for him and his students in all US? Finde something better.
Sin's father would not endorse his teacher's school if they presented themselves as chinese.
And thats why he have to wear Japanese uniforms in US? Is that logic?
Why would there be Shaolin Do in China if it was not established and opened to the public until Ie Change Ming and his colleagues organized SD in Indonesia sometime in the late 40's early 50's?
Maybe becouse its Chinese art?
I don't think anyone is eager or ready to move to mainland China and open up a kwoon in the near future either.
Well I belive you that noone is ready to poed Shaolin Do kwoon in China...
Now something about other replys
Also reply to zefff was more than patetic, you even didnt answer.
Very nice to meet you Bamboo, my best friend and fellow black belt under Master Green has just recently been awarded his 2nd dan in Aikido. I love your art, I have learned a great deal of it and I really like what it has to offer.
Now you are expert in Aikido too? Did you ever thing to change name of Shaolin Do to Shaolin Aikido?
You basically just said that Shaolin doesn't exist anymore
You tactic is patetic. Now you start putting words in my others mouth? Why dont you writte all posts alone. In one post you writte question and in other you writte answer.
We've been told that we look more like karate
Ofcourse when Shaolin Do is more Karate than Shaolin. Did you ever ask yourself why they say that?
A form can be anything that you decide to call a form
Really, now you are philosohop? I never heard something so idiotic.
There are other shaolin do websites out there that state different things, and some are out there that are not even affiliated with Sin anymore, they are breakaways on their own terms now, but still teaching the same material and claims.
So Sin is fake
I do agree that you look more like Karate and TKD in your movements.
How Shaolin can look like Karate or TKD. What are you talking about?
You can take a TKD mcdojo, throw in some bag work and some shitty sparring and call it a real art good for self defense, but it doesnt make it so.
Or take Shaolin Do which looks like Karate and TKD.
And we can produce all the lineage and documentation in the world,
Its easy to say that, but why dont you do that?
I could produce lineage and documentaton on the history of Aikido. That whole art is very well documented and available for anyone to research.
My advice about Shaolin Aikido was just joke. Dont take it serious.
if you read all your "answers" you will finde out that you didnt answer anything. You just writte and writte nonsens things and skipp simple anewer every time.
I have to writte few things more, but next time.
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by Arjun
...do a little research yourself. My brief and admitidly unorganized tidbit of Shaolin history wasnt near as eloqant as Hengest's was, but it is nonetheless fact. It is not a theory. There was only one Shaolin temple and it was destroyed. Outlandish theory? Again, hardly a theory, and only outlandish to one who is a stranger to the facts
Regardless what everyone thinks, it's interesting that in the 1960's when Sin The first came to the U.S. before the days of Internet, "Kung Fu," and readily available research on the subject, he was stating that there was a Fujian province shaolin temple and that the material he was teaching had it's origins from this temple. So...If anyone of you guys would like to take the time to read through all of the following, enjoy.
Here is some "Outlandish Theory" for all us strangers to the "facts" concerning only "one" shaolin temple...
Introduction, from the book: The Riddle of Southern Shaolin (Translated from Shaolin Fang Gu, by Wen Yu Chen ISBN:7-5306-2830-5)
" On April 4, 1992 the Putian city government held a press conference to announce that in a township therein the remnants of the Southern Shaolin Temple had been found. Xin Hua and 19 other Chinese and international news agencies showed up for the conference. Soon after, the news was published in Xin Hua and Zhong Xin outlets. The stories said that the work on the theory that Southern Shaolin was located within the LinQuan Yuan in Putian’s Lin Shan neighbourhood began with the ‘Southern Shaolin Temple Remnants Meeting?on Sept 14, 1991. Attending this meeting were more than 30 scholars and experts from seven provinces and was led by the head of the Chengdu Sports Administration, Prof. Yu Yun Tai, Chinese Peoples University (Renmin Daxue) professor Tai Bao Qi, and professor Luo Zhao of the Chinese Social Science World Religion Research Center. The meeting’s main presentation of evidence was a piece of research by the Fujian Cultural Center, Archaeological Team member Lin Gong Yu, entitled ‘Putian Lin Quan Yuan’ ruins discovery and early analysis.
According to this report, from Dec. 1990 to May 1991 a 1,325 square meter ruin was found with strata beneath that included Song, Yuan, Ming and late Qing dynasty periods. The remnants accord with building techniques of Ming through Song times. At the same time, Song dynasty era carvings were found that have clear writing: ‘Lin Quan Yuan, Enlightened Teacher Nan Ti’s tower, Tian You, thus proving it is indeed Lin Quan Yuan. However, Song era writers record in the ‘San Shan Zhi?(records of San Shan) report that Lin Quan Yuan construction was begun in 557, which is a long way from the Song era (1100’s).
The archaeologist proposes the following theory in the section ‘Concerning the problem of the Southern Shaolin Temple: ‘This find has not found any direct evidence of the Southern Shaolin Temple, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence which points to this Lin Quan Yuan as being the Southern Shaolin mentioned by so many modern scholars, legends, novels, and stories among the people.
5 points support this conclusion.
First, ‘correct place. Many scholarly reports are that the southern temple was somewhere in Fujian’s Putian ‘jiu lian’mountains. Moreover, the Lin Quan Yuan is found in the Lin Shan neighborhood, which was called Quan Shan in Song times. ‘Jiu Lian mountain came along much later as a result of secret society activity.
Second, the Lin Quan Yuan had martial monks. Within the ruins a large stele was on which was carved ‘This temple’s martial monks Yong Qi and Jin Qi built a trough in Sept. 1063, placed by Ti Rong. The archaeologist concludes, ‘martial monks are naturally associated with Shaolin.
Third, Lin Quan Yuan’s location ‘created the right conditions for Northern Shaolin disciples to visit.
Fourth, Lin Quan Yuan is surrounded by several other temples, ‘and these temples records and steles have many references to Shaolin disciples’. For example, Ku Zhu Temple, Jiu Lian Yan Temple and others record that Shaolin monks built them. The nearby temple’s relationship with Lin Quan Yuan was very close, and some even counted themselves as sub-temples. This seems to show that Lin Quan Yuan could be the Southern Shaolin.
Fifth, the Southern Shaolin ‘has always and forever been related to Hong Men (early triad) legends. Lin Quan Yuan’s own destruction seems to coincide with the legends of early Qing demolition of the Southern Shaolin temple. The temple’s northern building ‘Red Flower Pavilion’ (built in 1646) has written over the door ‘All things return to the 3-foot sword, in the time of the 5 clouds, the 7-star flag will appear, which seem to relate to the Hong Men’s leader, Wan Yun Long. Not coincidentally, many of the late Ming loyalists ‘left home’ (become monks) and entered the Putian, Fujian Jiulian Southern Shaolin temple.
Overall, much of the scholarship in the report is trustworthy. However, the theories in the ‘Concerning the Southern Shaolin problem are not. For example, Hua Qiao University’s Lin Yi Zhou’s work ‘New Study of the Southern Shaolin Temple presents several doubts:
Fan Wen Lian’s 1941 revision of the ‘Complete History of China (school text book), struck out the line ‘Kang Xi’s 13th year, the triads were formed; they were begun by the Putian, Fujian Jiu Lian Mountain Shaolin Temple monks, because it was seen as incorrect and nothing but legend because Putian does not have a Jiu Lian Mountain.
Also, ‘martial monks’are not solely from Shaolin. In the Yuan Dynasty, the Quan Zhou Kai Yuan monastery also had fighting monks.
Therefore, the words ‘martial monks’ carved on the stele cannot be definitively related to Shaolin, northern or southern.
In November 1992 I asked about the problem of Lin Quan Yuan and Southern Shaolin, and after much debate, my opinion (Wen Yu Chen, writer) was asked for. I replied ‘there is nothing in the Songshan (northern) Shaolin Temple’s writings, or other materials we have currently, to indicate a Southern Shaolin
Temple. Whether Lin Quan Yuan is or isn’t, much remains to be seen and only hard research will reveal the truth."
In 1990 archeologists found the ruins of a temple complex on Jiulianshan near Putian villeage in Fujian Province. It took them 2 years to decide that this was indeed the location of the famous and long lost South Shaolin Temple. It was quite a spectacular finding, and reports of the excavation activities could be seen on TV all over China. Soon after this it was decided that a brand new temple was to be build, bearing the name 'Southern Shaolin Temple'. The original name of the temple was "Quanlin Yuan".
Different from what you may expect, the new building wasn't planned in the direct vicinity, but actually on the exact same spot of the old temple.
Last edited by Thaddru on Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total
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Thaddru
quote:
Originally posted by Arjun
Jademonkeystudent: Kris gave some advice to Thaddru that a lot of other people in this discussion should follow. If you want to debase or defend the lineage and history of a certain style you should grab some books and do some research. Hopefully Hengest would drop by and give a brief summary of his historical knowledge in this subject.
Ok, I'll continue from my previous post now...
...from the book: The Riddle of Southern Shaolin (Translated from Shaolin Fang Gu, by Wen Yu Chen ISBN:7-5306-2830-5)
Fujian Province’s Fuqing County has had a Shaolin Yuan ever since Song times. After the Southern Song capitulated to the Yuan, a Quanzhou native Liang Ke Jia revised the ‘Three Mountain Record’ in 1182. Volume 36 is called ‘Fuqing County Temples’. Within this volume is a small section, ‘The Dong Lin Temple in Xin Ning area ‘the same area as the Shao Lin Yuan’. The Ming dynastyscholar, Putian native Huang Zhong Zhao edited the ‘Records of the Min Area’ in around 1499, and this also records that there are eight temples in the Xin Ning area of Fuqing County: Fang Dong, Dong Lin, Hou Tang, Long Xi, Zhao Fu, Long Ju, Shaolin and Da Xu.
Among these temples, the first to be built was the Fang Dong with construction beginning in 569. The Dong Lin temple was built sometime between 1086 and 1094. Hou Tang was built in 1117. However the other five temple’s construction dates weren’t recorded. On June 4, 1993 the Fuqing government’s Chen Hua Guang, Xu Chang Tong, and Yu Da Zhu found the remains of this aforementioned Shaolin in the Shaolin district of Dong Zhang township. The proof comes in two forms. First, the southern face of the Xia Yang bridge is inscribed ‘Shaolin Yuan’s Sha Men’ encouraged everyone to contribute merit and himself donated a bridge. Ju Fang De donated money because of Sha Men’s encouragement. The monks Xian Xi and Xian Gan each donated 400 Y. On the north face is inscribed the time of construction, and a commemoration of Sha Men’s speech. The bridge is about 300 meters from Shaolin Yuan. Another piece of evidence is a large stone stele on which is inscribed ‘Yue Xiu, a monk on this mountain set this stone in the twelfth month of the fourth year of Da Guan’s reign.‘Monk on this mountain’ (dang shan seng) is most often preceded by ‘Shaolin’. Fujian Provincial government and Fuzhou City archeological teams excavated the site in July and August of 1995 and March through October of 1996.
The excavations uncovered a site of over 5000 square meters, currently the largest temple found within China. The archaeologists report found four strata: Northern Song, Southern Song, Ming/Qing and nearly modern. There seem to be strata below the Northern Song level, however it has yet to excavated. All the levels excavated have temple remnant
How to Beat up ANYBODY!
Original Poster: CreativeFighter
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 26-03-2004, 02:04
Orginal Post: CreativeFighter: Reminds me of all the McDojos out there.........
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How To Beat Up Anybody
Disclaimer: This is for informational purposes only. We cannot be held responsible if you beat up everybody around you!!!
For the purposes of this how-to, we will assume the following:
*You have seen at least three kung-fu movies, have practiced some moves you have seen in them, and in extreme cases, be able to run up a wall and backflip off.
*You can distinguish a punch from a kick, and know that using spinning variations of these attacks is recommended for experts only.
*Can handle the responsibility of being able to win any fight.
*You are least twelve years of age.
Step 1: Get pumped. Here are some ways to do this:
*Think of the craziest guitar solo you can. Let this be the only thing in your head!!!!!
*If you're driving to the fight, drive really fast! Do not obey traffic lights!!!
*If there are totally hot chicks around, ask them to watch you fight and cheer you on.
*Make a cool entrance to the fight. For example, try to find a way to jump off a roof next to him, or get dropped off by flaming helicopter.
*There are lots of ways to get pumped. Try to think of your own!
Step 2: Identify the enemy. Basically, all enemies can be grouped into five categories:
*Shorter than you
*Taller than you
*Wears bright clothes
*Makes witty or snide remarks
*Has knives tied in hair
Step 3: Fight! Before you go in fists flying be sure to adjust your strategy accordingly.
For enemy that is shorter than you: Remember he is shorter than you, so you have the psychological advantage. High attacks like roundhouse or bicycle kicks and flying elbows will not work, because they will go over his head. Try low attacks like sweep kicks and helicopter punches. He will almost invariably go for your wallet. Be prepared for this, and keep it in your back pocket. (Note: This is also another reason not to try roundhouse kicks.) If there is a hot chick nearby, have her hold your wallet. If possible, try to keep him confused by getting directly behind him without him noticing. This will prevent him from seeing you, and you can then helicopter punch his back. Repeat process until he gives up or is knocked out!!!!
For enemy that is taller than you: In this case, low attacks will glance off his shins, which could hurt you more than him! Try to aim for soft parts like his tummy. If you manage to knock him off balance (which shouldn't be hard) try a backflip double kick. With any luck, you should hit him directly in the chin with both heels, and he will backflip onto his back. Now he is shorter than you. Refer to the above instructions until he gets back up (if he can!!). If there are hot chicks around, be sure to taunt him. If you are unable to knock him off balance. Try hanging from fire escapes or standing on boxes so that you are the same height. This should level the playing field a little.
For enemy that wears bright clothes: Chances are this guy is an optimist, so he will automatically assume he is going to win the fight. Use this to your advantage. If at all possible, get into the darkest place possible, like shadows or alleys so your eyes are not hurt. On the plus side, he should be easy to keep track of so feel free to use all maneuvers in your arsenal that use spinning (roundhouse kicks, helicopter punches, dragon axle). If you get tired, try thinking of an alternate guitar solo. Expect this to be a long fight, since people who wear bright clothes are normally very peppy and energetic. Don't be discouraged if you only land one in a hundred punches, because its that one that counts.
For enemy that makes witty or snide remarks: This enemy will talk a lot to try to confuse you or make you angry and lose your focus. His downfall is that he will always try to complete sentences. Wait for him to get a few words into a sentence and cut him off mid-sentence with a hurricane elbow or something of this nature. While he is doubled over, use this time to think of an even wittier comeback which should end the fight. Below are some examples:
Enemy: Looks like school got out early.
You: Yeah. The School of Pain! (Punch in face, fight is over) Class Dismissed.
Enemy: Nice haircut, queer!
You: I would rather be a queer than a whole butt. (Head butt in mouth, fight is over).
Enemy: Late for your tea party, little girl?
You: Three's company. (Grab bottom jaw, pull down very hard, fight is over).
Note: There are lots of comebacks to every insult. Think of your own! Mix and match. A helpful tip is to carry around a notepad, and when you think of a clever comeback, write it down so you don't forget it! Be creative!
For enemy that has knives tied in hair: This is by far the hardest type of enemy to defeat. Don't let that discourage you. While it is smartest to avoid fights entirely with this category, sometimes it is not avoidable. Some examples would be: You and the enemy with knives tied in his hair have been starved in a pit for days then are forced to fight each other for the amusement of a dark king; You and enemy with knives tied in his hair are in a small room, and something has fallen in the way of the door, forcing you to fight until only one survives; It is the aftermath of a nuclear apocalypse and you and a guy with knives tied in his hair and a totally hot chick are the only survivors and you must defeat him so that the new human race is not evil. (Note: There are more reasons that you and an enemy with knives tied in his hair could be forced to fight, but they are extremely unlikely). First of all, we can't stress enough that you should not direct attacks toward his head, because there are knives tied into it. This could do severe damage to your hands and feet, ending the fight prematurely. The only way fighting researchers have found to end a fight with this type of enemy is as follows: Try and avoid attacks for the duration of the fight. This will tire him out, forcing him to play his trump card: He will begin to wind or twist up. As soon as you see this, run out of the range of his hair. On average this is three or four feet, but run about five feet just to be safe. He will begin spinning. Stay out of range until he can no longer spin. At this point he will be dizzy. There are three major tell-tale signs to determine if your enemy is truly dizzy, or just faking it so you come closer. They are:
1: Enemy will not be able to walk straight, or stand still. Be careful, this can be faked.
2: He may complain that the room is spinning and he wants to get off, or something to that extent. This can also be faked.
3: Finally, his eyes will be rotating in opposite directions. This cannot be faked. This is your cue to head in for the KO!!!!
Use your best move, for example, a fierce lion jab to the chest or something like this. For those of you who are familiar with flying horse kicks or budding lily technique, by all means use this. Normally, if you KO one person with knives in his hair, word will spread very quickly and you shouldn't have to worry about other people with knives in their hair picking fights with you. This does not give you the right to tie knives in your hair. Remember this is a technique used by dishonorable fighters.
Step 4: Victory pose. This is the fun part. At this point in the fight, the enemy is either running off or is unconcious. Many fighters will strike a pose, and say something in japanese. Experiment with different combinations until you find one that fits your style. Here are some examples. Keep in mind that you are not limited to these! Be creative! Have fun!
*Kick through the nearest brick wall.
*Frontflip onto one hand, and do as many one-handed pushups as you can before flipping back onto your feet.
*Look into the sun and let the wind gently blow your shirt/cape or ruffle your hair.
*Throw smoke bombs on the ground and vanish before it clears.
*Put your hands on your hips, lean back slightly and laugh menacingly. Not at the enemy in particular, just in general.
*Turn your back to the spectators, revealing the family crest emblazoned across your back. If you wish, you can point at it.
Congratulations, you have completed the tutorial on how to beat up anybody. Remember this does not guarantee that you will be able to win every fight you get in, but over time and with practice, you will. For best results, print out two copies of this how-to and carry a copy in your wallet and one in your glove compartment so one is always readily available. Please remember: This was written to be used as a tool; Not as a weapon. Exercise caution when performing the techniques described here.
is this a mcdojo?
Original Poster: Stg
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 20-03-2004, 01:47
Orginal Post: Stg: i'm looking for a good ma school to join,because very recently i've been put into extreme self defense situations and i always choke up,so i need to join something immediatly...from what you guys can tell off the bat do these look like mcdojos or accredited schools? thanks in advance?
http://www.nimajkd.com/school_ap/index.html
http://www.wtny.com
what is Nippon Shiho Karano Ryu Ju Jistsu?: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 17:36
Orginal Post: setsu nin to: what is Nippon Shiho Karano Ryu Ju Jistsu?
AnomalE
there are some instuctors i know but what is the difference between Karano and say Gracie Ju Jitsu?
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setsu nin to
Nippon Shiho Karano Ryu is part of Shiho Karano Ryu.
Shiho Karano Ryu is mix of Kempo, Kobudo?, Karate, Iaido, Jujustu and Arnis.
Old fat headmaster who called himself Soke is Clement Riedner. He gave himself 10dan and Soke title. He couldnt get more than 4 dan in any other martial arts so he made his own and give 10 dan and soke title to himself - patetic.
You have to see his two sons (Nidai Sokes!), on one of them I wouldnt put my money even that is male, and other is same dady, fat and little retarted.
I realy dont get why law dont stop clowns like tham to open martial arts school.
Oh yes, diference between Shiho Karano Ryu and Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
Well Shiho Karano Ryu is patetic try of some fake fat soke to create something like traditional Japanese martial art school, unfortunaly he created Japanese martial arts circus and hadmaster of that circus is fat clown Clement Riedner known as Soke.
So Shiho Karano Ryu is nothing (at least not martial art) and Gracie Jiu Jitsu is style of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
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bamboo
I did a quick google search on the style and the first thing that comes up is the world sokeship and founder organization. Like Setsu Nin To said..FAKE.
I think what really bugs me about fakes is how good they are getting at representing themselves. Experienced martial artists know better, its the parents that have no background that get fooled and enroll their kids into these groups because soke, shihan and other "exotic" sounding titles are used and sound real. Just on this board alone I have heard people talking about the MASTER and this type of thing. IMO, when a teacher demands to be called MASTER...slowly back away. In the traditional sense, a real master is humble and does not demand unreasonable honourifics or bring themselves unneeded attention. Leave that to cheap movies.
One day I will have some extra cash and will start "GRILLCHEESEDO" just to get on the list.
Setsu- Do you use that name in the literal or more shugyo meaning? Either way, good choice.
-bamboo
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AnomalE
thanks a ton you all....i dont take an it and never planned to....i posted for my elder uncle who is taking it......i told him i have never heard of the crap but he swears its the badiest thing on the planet.......even tho my mere 4 years of Gung Fu when i was a kid and resent minimal JKD training is what he calls "total bullsh*t" i still dominate him sparring.....go figure great art huh?
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San Jitsu Ryu: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 17:19
Orginal Post: setsu nin to: San Jitsu Ryu
RoninMMA
I am thinking of moving back to Jacksonville, and was looking for a good dojo. I came across San Jitsu Ryu in Black Belt magazine, and was very intrigued. It is system that is jiu-jitsu based. However it brings together elements of karate, judo, jing jow pai kung-fu, wrestling, boxing and street fighting. I was wondering if there is anyone that has gone to that school or knows about the style. Here is the website.
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bridge/7265/
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setsu nin to
RoninMMA
Coments on few things from that webpage...
GRANDMASTER FRANK E. SANCHEZ is a 10th degree black belt (highest rank attainable) in the martial arts.
Thing that I dont like the moust is when someone "finde" new style and give 10. dan to himself and title of hadmaster, thats realy patetic... Thats enought to me to never join the school.
A student of martial arts since age 11, Sanchez holds black belts in judo, jiu-jitsu, karate and a red sash in jing jow pai kung-fu.
It realy doesnt mean nothing if he dont put rank and who gave that rank to him. You may buy all that diplomas for less than $500.
Moust patetic of all is WORLD HEAD OF FAMILY SOKESHIP COUNCIL as that lunetic said the largest and most elite of the martial arts grandmasters councils now in existence today .
Ofcourse he put himself on the list too. Moust of the Sokes are total anonimus who gave themself Soke titles, just same as Sanchez gave himself. Some of the sokes on his list even dont have Soke title. There is only one represenative Soke on the list. I wouldnt use that Soke list even as toilet paper.
So Mr. Sanchez gave himself 10. dan and Soke title, put himself in W.H.F.S.C., I am just wondering whats next? Maybe he give to himself aword for Soke of milenium or something like that.
My advice to you is to stay away from that "art" and Mr. Sanchez.
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8LimbsScientist
Yeah, I dont really like that Sokeship BS either. Ever since I noticed that the "Combat Ki" guy was a member it sort of turned me off of the whole organization. But it doesn't automatically mean he is BS because I believe Jim Arvanitis' Mu Tau Pankration has a membership with WHFSC and they get some respect. If you have the time and you are in the area, it doesn't hurt to stop by the dojo.
I'm assuming you have prior MA experience, so you should be able to differentiate McDojo from real Dojo. Just stop in, maybe try out a class or two for free and see if it seems like the real thing.
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Bushi
If they are badass and their techniques, teaching style and price are solid Give it a try. I have never heard of it, but that doesn't mean much.
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RoninMMA
Here is a link for some more info on San Jitsu that I dug up. This is an interview with Mr. Sanchez.
http://www.thekaratevoice.com/articles/interviews/sanchez/
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setsu nin to
Nice interview , but he didnt say nothing important about art. Tipical for McDojo.
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RoninMMA
Yeah I have decided you guys are probably right. I found a new school in Jacksonville that I am going to hit up, once I get there. They teach JKD, Kali, Muay Thai, and Submission fighting. They train for Vale Tudo and such. Here is the site, if your interested.
http://www.peacocksacademy.com/home.htm
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