Ancient McDojos: Old Forum Topics
Original Poster:
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 03-04-2004, 04:29
Orginal Post: : Ancient McDojos
thebgbb
I know that we stick to the "it's not the art, it's the fighter" line, but I was just thinking about something today that might lead us to believe otherwise.
I totally believe that, if someone learns only from a McDojo, then they will be unable to fight effectively using the McTechniques.
Let's assume that there are McDojos out there today. Generation after generation learns these McTechniques, and they continue to spread it around. It's not unreasonable to say that 400 years from now there will be many schools that can trace their lineage back to these McDojos, and that they will be McDojos themselves.
Now, with that it mind, isn't it reasonable to say that there could have been McDojos and McKwoons throughout China and Japan for over 400 years? And if that is the case, it should be reasonable to say that an art is a McArt, full of McTechniques, and that it is ridiculous to use it today. If that is the case, some of these TMA's really could be worthless.
Now, my goal is not to turn this into a TMA vs MMA thread. There are some TMA's out there that have proven themselves in the battlefields and in the gyms, and we already know that they are effective.
That being said, are there any "TMAs" that you have learned/observed that you believe trace their origins back to a McDojo/McKwoon?McDojang? Personally, I think monkey kung fu traces back to a McKwoon (At least Paulie Zink's monkey kung fu). I have a hard time believing that any of those techniques are useful in battle, in the street, or on the mat.
What are some of your opinions? By the way, I'm giving a pre-emptive "shut the fock up" to triangle, or Pinky, or whatever he goes by now.
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*Gong*Sao*
The forum seems to have eaten my previous post, so if I double posted that's why. What I basically said is that I think that 400 years ago if someone had found out that the sensei across the street was teaching McKarate, he would have gone over there and kicked the offender's ass himself. I'm not trying to say that this theory is impossible, but it seems unlikely to me. There may be a couple of arts like this (like monkey kung fu perhaps), but I doubt there are more than maybe one or two.
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MA dude
I don't think mcdojos are ancient I think they are a modern creation since now martial arts are more well known and can be marketed.
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Stg
quote:
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Originally posted by MA dude
I don't think mcdojos are ancient I think they are a modern creation since now martial arts are more well known and can be marketed.
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exactly,it's an easy scam made to whore the average know-little-about-ma person out of thier money, using lines like "learn to be fit quickly you'll feel great" or "learn to break a man's arm in X amount of time",because the people don't know ths is bullcrap. this imo is due what ma dude said,they can market thier lies to peple on a mass scale with ads and such,back in the day this wasn't a probability,you know?
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setsu nin to
[b thebgbb[/b
In my opinion moust important is fighter as person, as himself. You may know all best techniques, but you will lose fight if you dont know when and how to use them. You also have to know how to improvise, often you will have to start with one and finish with other echnique...
That are just some of reasons why is fighter moust important. But techniques are same important. If you are less good fighter but you have better techniques you may win the fight too. You youst have to know how and when to use them.
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craazyphil
In the old days a style's popularity was based on its reputation on the street or battlefield. Schools often fought each other to prove there techniques. I believe that McTechniques didn't come about until people started teaching the martial arts without ever using them to fight. They learn and then they teach, but they never use their skills. This is especially true in America because laws limit our freedom to hold fighting competitions, that and people here are generally pussies. Thus, the teacher has no way to understand what they are teaching. That's why you should only learn self defense from someone who's been in alot of street fights.
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setsu nin to
craazyphil
You are right. There is many instructors, Senseis, Sifus or what every you whant to call them who dont have any experience in any caind of fight. In my opinion you cant teach martial arts if you dont have any experience in fight. And the worst combination in my opinion is when someone widouth any experience teach McTechniques.
There is to many video Senseis today. You whant to earn some money and you buy few martial arts videos learn techniques and open McDojo. Only thing what you need is some SF comercial something like "I learned martial arts from moust powerful Sensei...", "on the East learned all secarets of..." and kid stories like that. You will always finde few kids who will pay you for that SF stories.
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Post: Mr.Cool:
Quote: Personally, I think monkey kung fu traces back to a McKwoon (At least Paulie Zink's monkey kung fu)
Paulie Zink's monkey kungfu is "McKwoon" kungfu in that he made it up, lol. The real Tai Sheng Pek Kwar folks aren't too happy with him ;) I think they claim he also stole some of their written material for a book he published... I know his lineage chart on his site looked exactly like one they had, but with his name added on :P>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Well, the McDojo is definitely nothing new - for as long people had something that others wanted (in the case of martial arts, fighting ability), there have been people smart and unscrupulous enough to come up with a convincing (or not-so-convincing but marketable) fascimille to sell to the unsuspecting public and take their money in return. McDojos (McWuguan?) have existed in China for as long as the real article was around, just that people took them as part and parcel of the whole martial arts game. Got to take the good with the bad, I guess, and they sure made for amusing stories when the real article got itchy and decided it needed punching bags on legs to test a new technique :twisted:>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
A thought has occurred to me though, and I would postulate that ancient McDojos, such as they were, would not have survived the test of time. Recall that in the periods of time that we are discussing, there wasno such thing as social stability, firearms or effective policing as we know it today. People learned martial arts for very good reasons, and perhaps the most important of those was to survive in rough times. A system that taught ineffective methods of combat would either lose all its students to attrition (they either crossed over to a system proven effective or else died out if they didn't catch on quickly enough) or else would evolve from McDojo to Dojo A La Carte, as it were. This is a sweeping generalisation, of course, but in a time when most people walked long, lonely roads to get from place A to place B, bandits and crazy warlords roamed the countryside and the emperor was very, very far away (and, more often than not, didn't care if a couple hundred peasants died), being able to fight could mean the difference between being robbed and murdered while walking home from the fields in the evening and living to see the next sunrise.>
Post: Gong||Jau:
Darwinian Martial Arts? Not a bad idea :twisted:>
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