Dispelling some myths...
Original Poster: 8LimbsScientist
Forum: Muay Thai Boxing - Thai Martial Arts
Posted On: 03-09-2007, 23:00
Orginal Post: 8LimbsScientist: I just wanted to start this thread to dispel a prevalent myth about Thai boxing, but I figured I'd keep the title ambiguous in case anyone thinks up any other myths they'd like to bust.
The first myth is about conditioning your shins. You will hear from tons of so-called experts about how you can kick trees, smack your shins with hammers and sticks, and roll bottles up and down your shins. All of these techniques are not only incorrect, but dangerous. The only way to condition your shins safely is to kick a heavybag without shin pads and to spar with shin pads. Overtime they will become conditioned, but it won't happen overnight, nor should it. There are no shortcuts that are also healthy.
Also, there is this image of training in Thailand where all the Thai fighters kick trees. Well, a long time ago Thais used to kick Banana Trees, which are pliant and aren't as hard as the average trees we have here. Now, of course, if you visit a MT camp in Thailand you will see heavy bags, and Thais kicking them. You won't see any Thais kicking Oak trees or swinging baseball bats at their shins.
Post: Ninja Kl0wn:
I've repeated this 120958473420957 times in all the threads that popped up about shin conditioning, and nobody ever listened. Hopefully it gets through to some people this time.>
Post: bamboo:
Its not a myth, but could you tell me a little about the ritual to music the fighters do before every fight? Back ground, reasoning and so forth. :)
-bamboo>
Post: Ninja Kl0wn:
Bamboo-
http://www.wmtc.nu/waikru.html>
Post: 8LimbsScientist:
I have another myth to dispel.
#2. Old retired Thai Boxers suffer from a variety of disabilities and they have horrible arthiritis in their legs.
This is simply untrue. I've consulted with people who train in Thailand and they all agree that this is just another horror story.
Retired Thai boxers often still fight in the Muay Thai Shows at local bars. These aren't as serious as the real thing obviously, but its still a fight, and often they will accept all challengers.
Also, many retired Thai Boxers become trainers.>
Post: Dcrjr:
Quote:
The first myth is about conditioning your shins. You will hear from tons of so-called experts about how you can kick trees, smack your shins with hammers and sticks, and roll bottles up and down your shins. All of these techniques are not only incorrect, but dangerous. The only way to condition your shins safely is to kick a heavybag without shin pads and to spar with shin pads. Overtime they will become conditioned, but it won't happen overnight, nor should it. There are no shortcuts that are also healthy.
I agree with kicking a bag as long as it?s a banana bag or using a medicine ball as you would for your stomach but only hitting the shins. But here is were I don?t agree with about condition your shins I personally don?t use a bottle I use a weighted bar to roll them. Theres a million mt gyms in the world with a Varity of teqniqes. As As far as the weighted bar I also use them for my forearms the Okinawa's did the same thing but they only called it a Tan.>
Post: 8LimbsScientist:
Myth #3
Everything you saw on the movie "Kickboxer" with Van Damme.
P.S. except for the fact that muay Thai kicks ass.>
Post: The BadBoy:
[quote=Dcrjr I agree with kicking a bag as long as it?s a banana bag or using a medicine ball as you would for your stomach but only hitting the shins. But here is were I don?t agree with about condition your shins I personally don?t use a bottle I use a weighted bar to roll them. Theres a million mt gyms in the world with a Varity of teqniqes. As As far as the weighted bar I also use them for my forearms the Okinawa's did the same thing but they only called it a Tan.[/quote
Ok so you don't agree, that doesn't necessarily make it ok. Can we have reasons for why rolling a steel bar down your shin would condition them and why it would not damage them? Cheers bro.>
Post: thebgbb:
[quote=8LimbsScientist Myth #3
Everything you saw on the movie "Kickboxer" with Van Damme.
P.S. except for the fact that muay Thai kicks ass.[/quote
Hehee. That's hilarious!!
Personally, I thought that it was totally believable that Van Damme did ballet to beat the champion thai boxer. :roll: That, and the fact that the traditional way of thai boxing was gluing shards of broken glass to the backs of your hands. :wink:
Don't you guys train like that?>
Post: The Axe Murderer:
Now days, Thai Boxers usually kick the bag then tree's. :)>
Post: MrApollinax:
[quote=8LimbsScientist Myth #3
Everything you saw on the movie "Kickboxer" with Van Damme.
P.S. except for the fact that muay Thai kicks ass.[/quote
Holy crap that was funny! wait a minute... what about kickboxer 2-4? Are you telling me that is all crap too? Say it aint so!>
Post: Fa Jing:
Kickboxer is crap but Jet Li's The One is completely true.>
Post:
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rolling bottles or stuff works and supplements a person who does kick heavy bags with his shins, conditions them. uses them,. but just rolling is bad, indeed, more if done lot.
everyone.. check out the website. ww.butthan.dryuree.com within a few days. it will have video clip of a master break three hockey sticks with his shin bone, and later baseball bat.
Good Luck all trainers.>
Post: opariser1001:
breaking a baseball bat with shins is a common breaking technique...old news....>
Post: Dirty_Irishman:
The problem with the bottles and pretty much anything else you can roll across them is they can cause shin splints. Another conditioning drill is to kick shins with someone else but to do it with controlled force.
And I have read in articles and a couple of books that the broken glass on the hands was true, but was reserved only for very special matches that was still along time ago.>
Post: graham1:
[quote=8LimbsScientist Myth #3
Everything you saw on the movie "Kickboxer" with Van Damme.
P.S. except for the fact that muay Thai kicks ass.[/quote
There's that poor donkey getting it again.
Sirc. Tie it up out of harms way, will ya?.>
Post: MorningLemon:
When it comes to shin conditioning there are a couple of things I would like to say. First off: The whole reason your shin becomes tougher and more resiliant is because you ARE damaging it. When you kick with the shin you get many tiny microfractures in the bone, and when they heal the create a type of scar tissue made mostly from calcium which actually strengthens and hardens the bone.
Secondly: As for the pain, Thai boxers, while conditioning are actually destroying and killing off the nerve endings in the shins. This happens naturally when you are beating it against a bag or rolling something against it.
Third: Tapping the shins or rolling somthing on them really does help, as long as you don't go over board. The extra strain and trauma on the shins will damage the nerve endings and create more micro-fractures in the bone which will become harder as it heals.
We have two main heavy bags in out gym, both 6'. The first is red and rather soft, at first this was even hard for me to kick but I got used to it just by kicking it. The other is black and filled with something much more dense, either sawdust or some synthetic material, as the bag is just short of being rock like. I tried just conditioning my shins with repeated kicking but after a couple months it still didn't help so I asked my trainer and he told me he used pieces of hard wood and tapped and rolled them on his shins when he first started. After I tried that for about a month I was able to kick the harder angrier bag.
Hope this helps someone.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Both are just that, myths! In the modern age, almost no one trains like the old days to condition one's body. What is not mentioned in either Thai boxing shin training or Shaolin body training is the necessary herbs used in Asia to counteract the daily punishments. These herbs have been developed, over time, to mitigate the damaging aspects of the conditioning by dispelling the blood and allowing the muscles to recover quickly. When I trained in Hong Kong, I saw and participated in this type of training (also know as iron shirt training in Shaolin) for Thai boxers and saw some in Thailand. In all cases, the master applied herbs both before and after the training and the fighting to expedite the recovery period.
Over in the States, the effectiveness of these applications are generally minimized and most "masters" do not teach them to their students. Remember, to be a Thai master, Shaolin master, or master of any style, one must know how to heal as well as kill.
Thai boxers, with the proper medical remedies, like other styles, can fight a lifetime.>
Post: Savier:
Quoting: MorningLemon;48755
Third: Tapping the shins or rolling something on them really does help, as long as you don't go over board. The extra strain and trauma on the shins will damage the nerve endings and create more micro-fractures in the bone which will become harder as it heals
what i've been told is that the tapping or rolling method only deals with the nerves so the beneficial aspects of bag hitting [denser bones wouldn't come with it. then in a fight, if one where to go shin to shin with someone your shin bone my get broken.>
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