Crazy Monkey: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 16:04

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Crazy Monkey

The BadBoy
Rodney King of the Straight Blast Gym has recently introduced delivery system known as crazy Monkey which is supposedly great for stand up defence. Is anyone here familiar with it? if so i've a thing sI would like to discuss.
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8LimbsScientist
I have heard of crazy monkey, and if you go to the SBG forum, there are plenty of people who it has worked for. I'm asking for the complete Rodney King "Street Boxing" DVD set for Christmas, so I can tell you about it a little more come new year
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The BadBoy
I just posted a thread on the Undeground about it so i might get some answers there. I don't know much about it but from what i've seen its quite similar to empty hand kali, i just wanted to know if kali influened crazy Monkey at all
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EvilScott
Ok I know nothing about it so I'm just going to tell you my guess...

'Straight Blast' (thats the name of the gym, right?) is what Jun Fan/JKD guys refer to a chain punch with forward motion. Empty hand Kali can look VERY similar to trapping hands in Jun Fan/JKD and chi sao in Wing Chun, and follows the same principles (we practice hubuds and stuff in my WC class).

My guess is 'Crazy Monkey' is some preset trapping hands/chi sao routines done very quickly to clear the path for a strike. Jun Fan/JKD also has some Kali in it though, thanks to Inosanto, so it may be Kali based too.

That's my best guess, derived from the terms in front of me.
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The BadBoy
Evil Scott I appreciate the guess but your way off. Its more a like a peek a boo boxing style. If you watch rampage fight then you'll see what i mean when he blocks with his forarms moving them up and down his head. You will never see th SBG guys doing chi sao.
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8LimbsScientist
Yeah, if you take a look at the Straight Blast Gym website, they are extremely progressive and they've done away with a lot of things from Wing Chun/Jun Fan.

The idea of a "preset trapping hands/chi sao routine" is completely alien to their training philosophy.

Check out the site, I think they are great! www.straightblastgym.com
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EvilScott
HeeHee, like I said, just a blind guess derived from a few words used in the description.
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8LimbsScientist
quote:

Originally posted by EvilScott
HeeHee, like I said, just a blind guess derived from a few words used in the description.



And you were wrong!!! Now, into the bottomless pit with you, before I lose my temper
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Guyanson_Mendiola
ok, what is the crazy monkey?
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The BadBoy
Training monkey is a fighting style devised by Rodney King (SBG representitive in south africa) based on non attribute driven boxing. It's based on a hight guard with the palms on the head with the forearms blocking the shots. It was devised to aid in your defence against people who are better boxers and have better attributes than you. I've seen a few people use it to great effect. Maybe the Monkey can give us more details in the new year after watching the tapes.
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doubleouch
We use it at the gym. It is just as you described. palms on forehead. Chin tucked in. Hands don't leave head unless punching. Block incoming punches with forearms. Works very well. Even against good boxers. It is only used when you are being overwhelmed with punches. It is the "OH shiznit!" defense. Works better for most people than trying to slip and parry punches.
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The BadBoy
I now have some more knowledge of it and have started to incorporate it into my training. Not that I'll meet a better boxer than me anytime soon and I have to say It's improved my game.
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setsu nin to
BadBoy4Life

Sorry, I have heard of crazy cows
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JiuJitsu
I am an unstructor under Rodney King and I teach
all my students the crazy monkey.

So shoot the questions and I will try to answer
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The BadBoy
I still don't know a lot about the Crazy monkey but I've worked out a few things that work from the structure, but they are mainly defensive.

My question is about attacking from the structure. When throwing punches do you first drop your hands back to the normal punching position when attacking?

I have tried punching from the hands on forehead but seem to lose quite a bit of power. maybe thats just because i'm not usedto punching from there though.

Also does the structure not leave yourself open to body shots? Is that a compromise you make so not to get hit in the head? Or do you crouch over that little bit more to try and protect you midsection?

Hpe you understand as it would probably be a lot easier to show you what I mean. I have my theories and some answers which I have attained through sparring and drilling but any tips would be appreciated, thank you.
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JiuJitsu
Hi Badboy

I will try to answer as clearly as possible

When attacking from the structure you hit from the top of your head,
it takes time to drop your hand down and also opens the crazy monkey structure up.To get more power you need to bend your legs and step foreward on all your punches,it's hard to describe the timing of this though!

When you're in the structure you must have your legs bent and your shoulders hunched pulling your stomach in,this closes off your body alot and your elbows cover alot of the midsection.When defending body punches you don't move your hands from the structure but you drop your weight a little and take it on your elbow/forearm.An upright stance with the Crazy Monkey will get your ribs broken so make sure you hunch your shoulders and crunch your stomach in,this position also adds power to your punches.

I hope that helps,if theres anything you don't understand I will try to explain it better.
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The BadBoy
Much appreciated you answered perfectly, thats more or less exactly what i've been doing. Just wanted to ask incase their were any tips you might have had. I'll try stepping in with the punches as I would with conventional boxing. So obvious but it didn't even pop into my head. Thanks again.
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JiuJitsu
I'm glad I could help you Badboy

I don't know if you're aware but Rodney sells tapes that covers the crazy monkey in detail,he also has a street boxing tape and others.
Check out his website http://www.alivenessnow.com.Honestly, training with him personally I haven't seen any of the tapes but from what I have heard they are very good.
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8LimbsScientist
I was supposed to get the tapes for Christmas, but I ended up ordering them myself just a couple days later. I am anxiously awaiting them! I bought the three DVD set on the SBG website, not the two DVD set from Rodneys website, although I want to get both.
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The BadBoy
Monkey how about doing a review for us when you get them?

---edit---

I think it'll help you loads Monkey, the Crazy monkey Structure is great to crash through someone punches and get the clinch.
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8LimbsScientist
I will certainly post a review once I recieve them. I think CM will help me a lot, and I'm looking forward to trying it out "live" during a sparring session.
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JiuJitsu
The Crazy Monkey structure is a truly wonderfull defensive/Offensive base to work from.It can be the ultimate equaliser when up against a striker/boxer with better attributes than you,even if only to clinch and take the fight to the ground.It enables very high quality defense and a strucure that makes powerfull counter attacking easy.
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Bushi
to bad you do not have a video clip. Just so People could get a glimpse. I am really interested in this now that I got around to reading this thread.
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The BadBoy
www.straightblastgym.dk/video/sbgi_seminartour.wmv

You see glimpses of it in this seminar highlight video.
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8LimbsScientist
Either Matt Thornton is really tall or he's teaching a seminar for midgets.

Hey Jiujitsu. How can you use CM to defend against hooks to the head? I guess I could wait until the videos arrive, but I'm curious.
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Bushi
I understand BBoy I appreciate the video. I like it.
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TKDman
Also doesn't this structure limit your vision. Being able to see what the other guy is doing is important in a fight.

Perhaps I'm not understanding how this is setup...
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8LimbsScientist
Try it...you can still see straight ahead and side to side, and that should be all you need to see where the punch is coming from. The only obstruction is your two forearms...and unless you have forearms like Lee Priest, then you should be able to see fine.
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The BadBoy
Plus I believe that the structure is only used when you are more or less overwhelmed by your opponent. So you wouldn't have your hands like up like that all the time. I'm sure JiuJitsu can clear this up.
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Stg
hey do the straight blast guys use the OJKD on guard stance or more of a mma/muay thai stance?
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JiuJitsu
Hi Guys

Sorry if I'm replying late but I've been away .

Badboy is correct in saying that the Crazy Monkey is normally used
when being overwhelmed.Some people like me feel real comfortable
using it and I use it all the time when sparring.

The sparring position is not the crazy monkey but almost like Muay Thai,
the hands are held high,the difference though is that your hands touch the top of your head(forehead),the knuckles are also not turned outwards like the Thais, this makes moving into the crazy monkey easy and you can still strike off of here effectively.

Blocking Hooks is a treat using the crazy monkey,it's very similar to the straight punch defence except that you slide your hand to the back of your head and tuck your ear against your shoulder.The hooks should land against your forearm,if you are feeling brave you can angle your elbow at 45 degrees towards the hook,this often results in him hitting the elbow which is very painfull.I hope I explained this ok.

Oh Matt is arround 6'8.
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The BadBoy
8Limbs, You know in that highlight video when Matt slaps the guys head and he pulls his arm tight against the side of his head before Matt slaps it again. thats basically what Jiu Jitsu is trying to explain. I thought the visual might help you understand JiuJitsu's explanation.
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JiuJitsu
Thanks Badboy
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zefff
Absorbtion and destructions are great btw and I can see how this works to good effect. Whats been described is not a new thing though so does this crazy monkey involve anything else apart from whats been described already?
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Bushi
Thanks JiuJitsu, that helps alot I will try some of these things tonight.
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The BadBoy
Zeff as the great King Solomon once said, "There is nothing new under the sun."

As for does it have anything else? I leave JiuJitsu to field that one. My limited knowledge of the structure may result in false information being given.
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JiuJitsu
"There is nothing new under the sun." So True

Rodney had added his own flavour to the defensive system.
He had included some nice attacks including the "Sneekaroo".
Also attaining the clinch from the crazy monkey structure.

I suggest ordering his tapes if you want to see these techs in detail.

Go to Http://www.alivenessnow.com
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8LimbsScientist
Still waiting for my tapes to arrive...its been a while
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8LimbsScientist
Woohoo! Tapes came in!

First thing is the presentation left something to be desired. For $100 I figured I'd at least get three jewel cases, but instead the DVDs came in three soft CD sleeves. This isn't a big deal, but I thought I'd mention it.

Anyway I popped the DVDs in immediately and over the course of three days or so, I watched them all.

The tapes are very helpful, I love them all! All the techniques are well explained and you can see what they are doing very well. The layout of the DVD is very helpful with a big title w/ the name of the technique before each technique is shown.

I highly recommend these tapes to anyone looking to improve their standup game. I'm really looking forward to trying out a few things in class.

So Badboy if you have any particular questions about what I thought of the DVDs please post them here and I'll answer them.
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The BadBoy
Did you see Rodney in action? How is the picture quality? Is it DVD quality or VHS, i.e. just tapes that have been burned onto a DVD and a menu shoved in?

Also could you give the following ratings out of Five. And explain why you gave it those ratings.

1.Production/Tape Quality:
2. Instructors demonstrated skill level:
3. Comprehension Score/Immediate Understanding:
4. Degree to which this will make someone a better Martial Artist:
5. Score on delivery vs. hype:
6. Degree to which you would recommend this product:
7. Wasted Time (The higher the number, the less "fluff"/repetition):
8. Playback Score/Watching it over-and-over again:
9. Would I purchase more of Rodney's products on face value of this set alone?:
10. Overall grade based on cost vs. value:

Be honest, no need to be nice just cause we love the SBg so much

Cheers Much!
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8LimbsScientist
Wow, you weren't shy about the questions huh

Here we go:


1.Production/Tape Quality: Like I said, I was dissapointed that I didn't get a real DVD case with the DVDs but no big deal. The actual quality of the video is very good. Everything is very clear and not grainy or anything. But I think it was basically a VHS burned on DVD. The chapters were random instead of at the beginning of every tech. and there was no Menu to speak of. 3/5

2. Instructors demonstrated skill level: Very good. Rodney comes off as extremely knowledgeable and I found myself nodding to alot of what he had to say. It just makes sense, although I've never tried it before. 5/5

3. Comprehension Score/Immediate Understanding: Rodney explains everything well and then demonstrates it on or with his partner several times. I'm going to give this rating a 5/5 but keep in mind that we're talking striking here, so it usually isn't that hard to comprehend. 5/5

4. Degree to which this will make someone a better Martial Artist: It depends...if you train at SBG already then maybe not, since Rodney's stand up is used at all SBG gyms as far as I know. But if you train at a traditional boxing/MT/MMA/TMA gym then I think this set can absolutely make you a better martial artist. There are alot of things that are very slight modifications to the existing Boxing or MT style, but I feel they make a little more sense. 5/5

5. Score on delivery vs. hype: Well the advertisement went on and on about scenes of Rodney fighting full contact. Actually all it was was repeated clips of him sparring full contact at his gym. Still interesting to watch, but I'm not sure if it merited mentioned in the advertistement. But besides that one flaw, which isn't even a big deal, everything they promised they delivered IMO. 5/5

6. Degree to which you would recommend this product: If you are interested in MT, Boxing, JKD or MMA then I'd say 5/5. If you are into any other martial art then maybe 3/5.

7. Wasted Time (The higher the number, the less "fluff"/repetition): There is barely any wasted time. There are enough repititions for you to understand the concept and I think just about everything in the DVDs had value. 5/5

8. Playback Score/Watching it over-and-over again: 100%. I've already watched the first DVD twice...you'll want to watch it a few times to verify you are doing it right. Theres a lot of info, so you'll inevitably want to watch it a few times. 5/5

9. Would I purchase more of Rodney's products on face value of this set alone?: Absolutely. I'm planning on saving up the money to buy his two dvd series on his site (which I hear compliments the one I have already). I like his style of teaching on the DVD, and I think what I learned is invaluable. 5/5

10. Overall grade based on cost vs. value: 4/5. It would be 10 but I'm a college student and $100 is quite a hefty price tag for me.

Like I said, there is a lot of modifications to my traditional MT game that I'm going to be trying to implement in the next few weeks. I think this tape was really really helpful, and I'm glad I got it.
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The BadBoy
Much Much Appreciated. Sorry about all the questions but I'm picky when it comes to parting with hard earned cash. Especially on instrctionals. I've seen loads and not really learned anything worthwhile from a lot of them. TH SBGs stuff has usually been the exception and I had a feeling this would be to.
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JiuJitsu
Hey 8LimbsScientist,

I'm glad you liked Rodneys stuff.

I will let him know,he will be happy.
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The BadBoy
8LS, How about another review after a few months to let us know if the series has effected your game much or not. I'll do the same if I end up getting the DVD.
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JiuJitsu
Hey 8LimbsScientist,

I spoke to Rodney yesterday and he was happy with your review,
infact he would like to speak to you about it his email addy is [email  This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it [/email 

He also said that the second two tape series is taught exactly
how he teaches us and also has alot more full contact sparring
and NHB matches of the guys in the gym (I may be in one of them
but I haven't seen them).
Check out www.streetbrawl.co.za/store
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Mixed artist
Jiu jitsu is the crazy monkey copyrighted or anything? I was looking at a ma magazine and I saw something by Richard Ryan. It was called the shield and it seemed exactly like the crazy monkey and he said he created it. Seems kind of suspicious.
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Stg
hey jjitsu you train at a sbg? how much does it cost?
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JiuJitsu
I am an instructor under Rodney King and I train at his gym
in South Africa.I'm not sure what the sbg gyms elsewhere cost but
our students pay the equivelent of $75 per month.

Rodney didn't invent the movements of the Crazy Monkey,there are probably many guys who teach something similar,however the way he applies it and teaches it is very unique.
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8LimbsScientist
I'm glad he liked my review, I tried to be honest as possible. I sent him an email.

But Crazy Monkey isn't all there is on the tapes, there's a lot more on there thats very useful.

Jiujitsu, you wouldn't happen to be one of the guys on the Street Boxing tapes are you?
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JiuJitsu
I haven't seen the street boxing tapes yet

I know I'm on one of Matt Thorntons tapes, I'm going at it full contact with
Robert Follis (he runsThe Hardcore gym with Randy Couture).
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The BadBoy
So is Randy still actively involved with the SBG? I know he did a lot of work with Matt and the guys with their clinch game but i didn't know he was still involved.
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JiuJitsu
I know Matt and Randy train together but as to
how involved Randy is with SBG,I'm not sure.
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HongKongDragon
I got a question, Is Crazy monkey effective in a street fighting or is it just for combat sport use?
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JiuJitsu
It's usefull for the Street and the ring.

Rodney developed it for the street first.He was a bouncer at
a very rough club for about 5 years (he got into hundreds of fights).
He was looking for something that could help you survive.
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HongKongDragon
But I don't understand how I could defend myself against someone with a knife, if both of my hands are on my forehead.
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The BadBoy
Different tools for different scenarios. Noone in their right mind would keep their hands on their foreheads if their advesary was to produce a knife. The SBG has a very good and effective knife defence program developed by the united Kingdoms very own Karl Tanswell. Its is called the STAB program.

But if someone is 'laying into you' as they say here in Scotland then the Crazy Monkey structure is an excellent way to defend yourself.

On another note, if someone had a knife and wanted to stab you with it. You probably would not know they had it until after you had been stabbed. But I think there is another thread on these forums dealing with knife defence.
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-=KING UMY=-
i have a question, just out of interest would this help my boxing a lot? If i train in this will it help me close the gap a lot easier or not that much??
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The BadBoy
Umy it will help your boxing loads bro. Learn the structure, you'll be able to hang with guys that are a lot better than you and have better attributes.

You won't be getting hit half as much. Plus when you add the structure to aid your god given attributes it makes you that much more dangerous.
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zefff
I tried it out of interest and noticed that people do not expect you to explode out of it on the counter. Works great.
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HongKongDragon
quote:

Originally posted by The BadBoy
On another note, if someone had a knife and wanted to stab you with it. You probably would not know they had it until after you had been stabbed. But I think there is another thread on these forums dealing with knife defence.



On the street you should always be prepare!! Expect the unexpected. So I will try this Crazy Monkey struture only in the ring and stick to normal defence for the street.
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zefff
well it could work at a given moment on street. Say u r jumped by 2 or 3 men? Its a good way to keep from getting knocked out while preparing to explode your counter and do a runner!

I think it is possible in hand to hand. Absorbtion techniques are just as good as, if not better than extended arm blocks and parries when u need to protect your jaw in the heat IMHO.
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JiuJitsu
When Rodney was bouncing he got into all sorts of fights,
with bats,knives,chains and in many instances he was
outnumbered.
He says the crazy monkey is awesome on the street and I believe him.

Obviously Karl's STAB program is designes specifically arround knife
defence and all the SBG guys should be learning it.
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HongKongDragon
quote:

Originally posted by JiuJitsu
When Rodney was bouncing he got into all sorts of fights,
with bats,knives,chains and in many instances he was
outnumbered.
He says the crazy monkey is awesome on the street and I believe him.



Did he use it when he was bouncing?
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8LimbsScientist
The idea behind Crazy Monkey is that it provides your opponent with very little to attack. Its really hard to get through your arms and hit your face. This is great for the street because, like Rodney says in the video, most people on the street go for the head. To tell you the truth, most people go for the head whether its in the street or in the ring. Its a sad fact that most people underestimate the power of a good blow to the body both in the ring and in the street...but anyway thats a different topic.

Back on topic. Crazy Monkey is just as effective on the streets as it is in the ring, as long as you work on it at your dojo and don't just pull it out of your ass when a fight happens. You would need to integrate it in such a way that you are comfortable with it, because if you just read about it on these forums and then just try to do it in the middle of the fight you'll probably do it wrong.

And if someone pulls a knife, then obviously you will alter your defense, but in a fistfight the CM is the way to go. Sure CM won't work to defend a knife, but if it can improve your defense at all, why not incorporate it? If you found a great defense for knives would you refuse to use it only because it didn't work against fists?
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The BadBoy
or in other words, as Fightauthority.com puts it. don't just talk about training, go train.

8lS you had the chance to use in you Muay Thai gym yet?
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8LimbsScientist
No

Like I mentioned in another thread, my instructor is moving locations. But apparently he's got a place in mind and he estimates we'll be able to train again in the first or second week of February.

Edit: One other thing. I"m really excited to try it out at my gym because I am the smallest guy there and I regularly find it hard to defend against bigger guys. They are rarely able to get through to the body, but I have a tough time defending my head for some reason. I think CM might be the "short guy" equalizer I've been looking for.

I also like the "hunchback" stance he went over in the tapes and I think that will work better for me than the more upright stance taught in MT.
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Bushi
Its funny you speak of the hunchback stance. In the Vietnamese offshoot of Muay Thai I learned that was so emphasized that I constantly have to stand erect to combat the muscle development that comes from that posture. (everyday standing, not fighting stance)
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8LimbsScientist
Ok, Badboy asked me to add a couple more questions to the review of Street Boxing. Still on the same scale of 1 to 5 (5 being best).

1. Usefulness for a beginner.
Rodney teaches with the assumption that you already know the proper way to throw a jab, cross, etc. This is not an instructional on HOW to kickbox or box. Its more a tape to refine your skills. But he does give interesting tidbits on how he trains his students on the basics, and the stuff he does show as far as defense and the clinch is excellent to start working with when you are a beginner. If you are a beginner the stuff you learn here will definately be useful, but you REALLY need to get to a school so they can teach you how to properly punch, knee, elbow, etc. 3/5

2. Usefulness for an intermediate student.
Very useful. I think an intermediate student should DEFINATELY know how to perform basic techniques, and once you have those techniques down, you are ready to include Rodney's Street Boxing into your game. 5/5

3. Usefulness for the advanced student.
Still usefull. The work covered in Street Boxing is pretty unique to SBG. I mean, I'm sure someone somewhere else in the world has come across similar techniques by sheer coincidence, but you aren't going to learn all this stuff just in your regular kickboxing class. The advanced student can benefit just as much as the intermediate as long as he/she has an open mind to try new things. 5/5
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The BadBoy
Thanks 8LS, nicely put.
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Bamboo kuning Vid Clip: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:50

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Bamboo kuning (a form of spiritual Pentjak Silat) Vid Clip

HongKongDragon
http://www.martrix.org/video_clips.html
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EvilScott
Crazy Yellow Bamboo people...

They will knock you over with their Chi! Beware!

Seriously though, these guys are worse than Ashida Kim and Scientology combined.
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HongKongDragon
I never heard of them before. I just saw that their vid clip look interesting.
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EvilScott
They are silly persons - laugh at them. Then beat them up because they give internal MAists a bad image.
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HongKongDragon
Sorry I didn't know.
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EvilScott
I'ts ok, now you do
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asag2
That was really one of the most ridiculous things i have ever seen. Especiall the last one. Looks pretty phony to me.
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Ninja Kl0wn
Pull the ceramic bowl from the iron grip of my ass cheeks. Ha ha! You cannot! For my chi is too strong!
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Anyone know if senshido is any good?: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:48

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Anyone know if senshido is any good?

Pull:
Is Senshido in your opinon, good or not worth taking?
Good art 12% [ 1  
Not even worth taking. 25% [ 2  
Not sure 62% [ 5  
Total Votes : 8
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MA dude
I am ussualy wary of the so-called "reality self defense arts" since most suck. But anyone know anything about this? I am still kind of wary because it said muay thai sucked for self defense.
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setsu nin to
We head already descousion about senshido and I wrirote my opinion on it. Its in Styles Information section I think.

Well I vote for Not even worth taking
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NeverMan
I really like a lot of points that Demitri makes. The psychological aspect of the teaching is very good from what I understand and have read about him, however, I have no direct experience with him or his gym.
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MA dude
I read a interview with him and he is always talking about tma's and mma's being inferior. He has a lot of talk about him beating mma dudes that come to his gym
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setsu nin to
Thats his problem, he just talk too much.
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MA dude
He does seem to pretend that tma and mma is inferior to senshido. He also makes so many claims about beating a bjj blackbelt that came to the gym using only the shredder and also he relates to a experience where a bjj peson came in to spar they put on headgear and he said that his student bit him, and sceatched and everything but the student had the headgear with the glass in front and it protects the whole head so how can he bite him?
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Ironjim
I wouldn't say that it's not even worth taking, as every art is worth taking to experience it and find out if it's for you. I'd personally read some of his material or watch one of his videos to check it out and see what's up. I don't think it's total garbage, since he does have a gym devoted to it and is pretty successful with it from what I read about him. Check it out, see if you like it. If you don't, it's probably not for you. If a person who stumbles upon it likes it and is good at it and is successful in a fight using senshido, then obviously it's for them. It's all about the artist, not the art...just my opinion
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NeverMan
quote:

Originally posted by MA dude
also he relates to a experience where a bjj peson came in to spar they put on headgear and he said that his student bit him, and sceatched and everything but the student had the headgear with the glass in front and it protects the whole head so how can he bite him?



He simply said that the BJJ guy was taking a lot of head shots trying to get an armbar, but because of the protective gear, the head shots weren't as much a factor as they might have been on the streets in a real live situation. That is all. He makes a very good point about ground fighting in a street situation, which is all he was attempting to do.

The only thing that bothers me about him is all this name calling. The "shredder"?? What the hell is that? Is that like chain punches?

"Senshido"?? Kinda cheesy names, that's all I am saying.
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Native American MA: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:22

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Native American MA

Ironjim
I know that Native Americans actually originated in Asia. Well, that's atleast what my mom said, as she is part NA. I know that they were good at archery and spearing and what not. However, does anyone here know if they were good hand to hand at all or have any kind of empty hand form of fighting?

Thanks
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george stiles
the indians had wrestling games that i know of for a fact
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george stiles
Adrian chief Roman incorporates native american arts into his kempo curriculum
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Bushi
And he will give you a Black Belt before you even watch his home Study Course
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confusingDot
i would like to know about not only aobu the hand to hand but also the weapon styles.
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setsu nin to
Very interesting subjest. Is there any website with some informations about it?
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The BadBoy
First search. Not had tme to look at it yet though.

http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/aifaa.htm
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Ironjim
Chulukua-Ryu reminds me a lot of Hapkido. Seems pretty cool; I'd like to try it some day
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Ironjim
By the way, George and Bad Boy, thanks a lot for the info.
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information on nunchucku kata's: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:16

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: information on nunchucku kata's

george stiles
Anyone know of a good source where i can learn some new nunchucku kata's. I am too far away from where i origionaly started learning and would like to continue that as my weapons style most books i have found at the book store are very short and teach me nothing new
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Bushi
I had to develop my own for my Shodan test in Goju back in the day. Ever consider that?
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setsu nin to
You could PM Matt to put your nunchucku kata on the site. Did you think about it?
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Bushi
Thats an idea. I will work on a way to tape it maybe.

And for those interested, The Shorin-ryu systems have good Nunchaku kata. Not that flashy, BS in tourneys..real combat tech kata
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setsu nin to
Bushi

You may take photos with text explanation.

Talk to Matt about it, I would like to see it.
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BLACK PANTA
Try to use the Nunchuks in a combative way without hurting yourself. Try experimenting different ways to strike, try holding it in different ways. Experiment in different ways. Find your level of comfort with with nunchuks.
You may also work on developing speed. Try to get faster and better at what you know allready.
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Bando Thaing: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:06

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: Bando Thaing

Nikushimi
Hey i cant seem to find much information about this martial art. all i can seem to find is that it is burmese(myanmar) style that was used against the thais during the wars.... anyone help me out?

Matt
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setsu nin to
Nikushimi

Well I am not shure how to explain what Bando is.
First to say that thaing could be translated in few ways, but main point is same, translation can be same sa Wushu or we can translate is as martial arts.
Burma have influence in martial arts from India and China at begining, later (IIWW) there was influrnce of Japan too, so influence of all these techniques that they learned we can finde in Bando. From unurmed parts there are Lethwei or Burmese Boxing and Naban or Burmese wrestling. In Bando they use weapons such as sword, staff, spear...
To image what is Bando you may look at Five Animals Kung Fu. Bando have animal formas such as Boar, Bull, Cobra, Deer, Eagle, Monkey, Panther, Scorpion, Tiger and Viper.
Many people thinks that Bando techniques are taken from Kung Fu, so that Bando is some mix of Kung Fu techniques, well thats not truth. Techniques were taken, but during the centuryes they were developed in diferent way that Kung Fu techniques, so today they are totaly diferent. You may see influnce of Kung Fu in preforming forms and meditative aproach.
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The BadBoy
Try this site out. Plus loads of downloads of fights there too.

http://www.thaing.net/
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Nikushimi
ok thanks for that lads

Matt
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American Kickboxing: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-03-2004, 15:00

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: American Kickboxing

Bushi
I am afraid I do not know much about its development or roots. If anyone knows the beginnings and evolution of this sport I would be interested in when, how and whom started this sport. ( I really am just curious, I do not train in it, but I am familiar)
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Urban Skurk
I think it was originally meant to be "full-contact karate". It was created because a lot of karate students were poor fighters, due to the tournaments not allowing "hard" contact.
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Guyanson_Mendiola
There usually Full Contact Karate Matches or Tournaments but I think only maybe the higher rankings will be able to compete in these events but Muay Thai would be a more you can say brutal type of Kickboxing but in Thai style.
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Bushi
I have studied Muay Thai, and I know the differences between the two sports and styles. I am interested in the History of American Kickboxing, ie. WHo, What, When, and How.
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Urban Skurk
Have you looked under the styles section? If not then here's what it said about kickboxing:

Many laymen are under the impression that modern day kickboxing originated in Thailand, Japan or elsewhere in the Far East, in fact, the real origins of the sport are revealed by the real name by which is was known, full contact karate. During the mid-seventies various American tournament karate practitioners became frustrated with the limitations of the then rather primitive competitive scoring system. They wanted to find a system within which they could apply kicks and punches to the knockout. Full contact karate was born. Early bouts were fought on open matted areas just as ordinary karate matches were. Later events were staged in regular size boxing rings. These early tournaments produced kickboxing?s first stars, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Benny Urquidez and Jeff Smith. Later the Americans really wanted to test their mettle and sent teams of kickboxers to Japan under the banner of the WKA (World Kickboxing Association). From this point kickboxing developed in to a true international sport.

During the early seventies the American martial arts world was shaken to its foundations by the demands made on it by a fresh young new generation of practitioners. Fighters started looking for a competitive format in which they could use their skills to the full effect, full power punches and kicks in bouts fought to the knockout. The development of specialised protective equipment speeded up the evolution of this new sport, which became known as kickboxing. Between 1970 and 1973 a handful of kickboxing promotions were staged across the USA. In the early days the rules were never clear, one of the first tournaments had no weight divisions and all the competitors fought off until one was left. A very young Benny Urquidez reached the final. Weighing in at 10 stones Urquidez faced the 14 stones Dana Goodson. Urquidez won the tournament by pinning Goodson to the floor for more than 10 seconds, which was part of the rules.

-courtesy of World Kickboxing Association
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Bushi
I thought itmay be a little more in depth than the synopsis, but I guess no one has more detail to add.
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CreativeFighter
Joe Lewis and people like Chuck Norris and eventually Benny "The Jet" Uquidez were not satisfied with the limitations of competition Karate. Eventually they started hitting and kicking harder, and thus became Kickboxing, because it could not technically be called Karate, so a whole new sport was created with a new set of rules and regulations.
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Hengest


quote:

and thus became Kickboxing, because it could not technically be called Karate,



That's not strictly true. As Urban Skurk already mentioned, it was referred to as "full-contact karate" for quite some time before the term "kickboxing" came into use.
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setsu nin to
I hope that these webpage will help.

http://www.worldkickboxingnetwork.com/history/history.htm
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CreativeFighter
quote:

Originally posted by Hengest

quote:

and thus became Kickboxing, because it could not technically be called Karate,



That's not strictly true. As Urban Skurk already mentioned, it was referred to as "full-contact karate" for quite some time before the term "kickboxing" came into use.



Sorry, I must have misphrased it. Over time, the rules evolved away from Karate and it became called Kickboxing
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Bushi
My next question is, Do you all think this sport is gaining in popularity or declining? Why?
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Nikushimi
to be honest with you i think right now in terms of sports muay thai holds the flag for entertainment. i dont know many people too interested in kickboxing unless they study the"sport" itself. i know plenty of people who study muay thai that watch it with eager anticipation and i know alot of regular non martial artists that adore it.

Matt
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Ninja Kl0wn
Declining, alot. The Golden Age, if you will, was its early days. Now with the popularity of Vale Tudo and muay Thai, people are starting to view PKA style kickboxing in the same light they view TKD sparring
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Bushi
I tend to agree with you Ninja Klown. I noticed that Don Wilson was spoken to quite often with this heir of disrespect when he commentated on "The King of the Cage" events. Its unfortunate that a good deal of MMa athletes veiw these guys ie. Chuck Norris, Benny the Jet, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace etc. in this light. These guys paved the way for UFC, KOTC and all the others.
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Any insight on Chun Kuk Do: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster:
Forum: Others
Posted On: 12-03-2004, 17:16

Orginal Post: : Any insight on Chun Kuk Do

siulung88
Anyone know the skinny on Chun Kuk Do? Is it just a myth or Chuck Norris' JKD?
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Hengest
Yeah, from what I know Chun Kuk Do is basically legit. It is indeed a style founded by the "legendary" Chuck Norris. It's based on Chuck's core art, Tang Soo Do, but has elements from other styles thrown in. From what I can find out, key is "Jujitsu (sic)", which I assume is BJJ as that's the only style of jujutsu that I'm aware Chuck has studied.

Never seen it in action so I can't tell you much more than that. The official site is undergoing construction at the moment, but do a search and you should be able to find out a bit more.
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