Carribean stickfighting: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster:
Forum: Others
Posted On: 24-05-2006, 16:49
Orginal Post: : a question for Blackpanta!
zefff
hiya,
I just read on one of your posts you mention "Carribean stickfighting".
what is this and do you have any info at all? What islands? I know African stick arts exist but I never knew any Carribean stick/knife art existed...well not on Jamaica any way??? If there is any on JA i will defo seek it out, next time I am on the island.
thanks,
zefff
Post: zefff:
Sorry, I only just spotted this.
Are you asking me or Panta? I have spent months at a time living in JA but have not encountered any organised stickfighting art. Many kids beating each other with stick but no art! :mrgreen: As you say I have come across African arts but not Carribean.
There was TKD and kickboxing etc when I was last there. Prolly much more arts now but it is my dream to retire back there and teach the youths Eskrima and Wing Chun, oh and the policeman special 'slam door in face' anti acid technique! :lol: (ref. badboys - krav maga/big issue thread).
As for african stick arts. What I have seen is very cool and apparently they learn from very young.>
Post: Gong||Jau:
Zefff, you would know better than I would, but I think you posted that :mrgreen:>
Post: zefff:
Took me a while to work it out! Look at the mess I get myself in! :mrgreen: feel a little senile now. :oops: :oops:>
Post: bajanmaster:
I'm from Barbados, there is a style of stick fighting here but it is dieing. I plant to learn it soon though.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
Oh I just now saw this question. The form of stick fighting I've seen is very similar to Capoeria only with sticks. It is very much a dance but it gets very brutal. People have been hurt very badly. In Trinidad it used to be that you could gather in the street and watch 4-8 guys stick fight, but because of the injuries and sometimes death it is now outlawed (found out this info via cousins in Trinidad who frequents these events). Because of it becomming illegal, is the main reason why it is dying down. There is still, what you would call, underground displays going on, but there are very few. Like I said my cousins go to them when they have the display. (and everytime I go down to Trinidad I either dont have the time to go to one or there's no event going on.) It originated almost the same way as Capoeria. The slaves that worked the cane fields, practiced, and developed their stick fighting using canes. Imagine getting whatcked with a piece of sugar cane. It hurts, and the fact that it's as flexible as bamboo and as hard as oak makes you understand how much it can damage. It was then disguised as a dance and that is the way the knowledge was handed down. My father's good friend was a very good stick fighter in his youth. I remember going to one, and seeing my dad's friend compete. I didnt understand fully what was going on so I dont really know how well he did. All I understood was 2 dudes trying to beat eachother up with a stick.
The stick by the way is about the length of the bo staff. It is a very, very circular form of fighting and you are not allowed to use your hands and minimal feet usage. Only what you would be described as a front kick would SOMETIMES be used. Very rarely though.
BajanMaster you got to keep us up to date on what you learn. Obviously I have never learned this art and once you get into it you will be able to explain in more detail.>
Post: zefff:
thanks!!! My family is from the hills in the country so if it is anywhere in JA it would be there. I will ask my relatives but I dont think anything like that is in JA...just a whole heap of gunshot! :lol:
Bajanmaster, I am with Panta and really hope you can inform us of your learnings.
Panta, thanks for the info. Getting beat with cane would not be nice! :mrgreen: But if it goes to severe damage and possible death why not use a hand or a few more kicks etc...or even two sticks! :mrgreen: Could they not even use the rear hand to jam, parry or under bad circumstances at least take the hit?
There must have been some incentive too? Money?
I understand if u cant answer my Q's but I am very intrigued now and I feel like booking a flight! I must see this in action! :mrgreen:>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Coetzee_0902.htm
This sounds very interesting, especially in light of the above article, which I've read through. The anthropological aspects mentioned by Panta and others seem to closely mirror those mentioned in the article. No doubt, the Carribean stick arts would have at least been closely influenced by, if not descended directly from the original. In any case, do have a read of that article - very interesting.>
Post: zefff:
Good stuff! Have you anymore? :mrgreen:>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Glad you enjoyed it, zefff mate. If you're referring to stickfighting, I'm afraid that's the only article of note I've seen, but check out that same site for others (ejmas.com). They've got some cracker stuff on Great Gama and Indian wrestling. I've also got a link to a fantastic anthropological study on Indian wrestling, if you want it.>
Post: zefff:
...Cracker stuff???...Cracker stuff!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
any indigenous/tribal arts are of interest, not just stickfighting either. Ta very much.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
[quote=zefff
But if it goes to severe damage and possible death why not use a hand or a few more kicks etc...or even two sticks[/quote
See this type of fighting was traditional. They trained to fight with no hands and minimal legs. It is truly an art form, although very brutal at times
Quote: Could they not even use the rear hand to jam, parry or under bad circumstances at least take the hit?
You wouldn't really want to use your hands really. It WILL break. Cane is not nice to block with your hand. Believe me I have tried and it wasn't a hard hit and my forearm was swollen of like a week. As well as not using your hands trains you to become way more familiar with the stick. You will essentially make the stick your hands and arms.
Quote: There must have been some incentive too? Money?
To my knowledge there was no monetary insentive for them to fight. They fought because it is(was) a part of Trinidadian heritage. The same way people practiced limbo, steel pan etc. They dont get paid for it but to keep the traditions alive. However I am sure that in the crowds there was gambling going on.
Quote: I am very intrigued now and I feel like booking a flight! I must see this in action! :mrgreen:
Yo man every day I feel like booking a flight and head down to stay there. I totally miss my homeland very much.>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
[quote=zefff ...Cracker stuff???...Cracker stuff!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
any indigenous/tribal arts are of interest, not just stickfighting either. Ta very much.[/quote
Anytime, zefff mate!
http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft6n39p104/
Here ya go - sweaty indian men in G-strings writhing about in mud in all sorts of intimate positons :twisted:>
Post: bajanmaster:
[quote=Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Coetzee_0902.htm
This sounds very interesting, especially in light of the above article, which I've read through. The anthropological aspects mentioned by Panta and others seem to closely mirror those mentioned in the article. No doubt, the Carribean stick arts would have at least been closely influenced by, if not descended directly from the original. In any case, do have a read of that article - very interesting.[/quote
I'm not so sure. The slave that were brought to the Caribbean were from west Africa and not southren Africa. They are were far apart and most likely culturally different as well.
Compare this map of the slave trade routes:
To this map of Africa:
See what I mean?>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
Hey I was speaking to my Dad about this on the weekend and he told me that my grandfather was a stick fighter in his younger days. He had a stick made out of the Poui Tree. It is a tree in Trinidad that's wood is very hard. He also had brass tips on both ends of his stick. He was apparently quite the stick fighter.>
Post: bajanmaster:
Started Bajan stick fighting, also known as "Stick Licking" 2 weeks ago. It is very interesting. The stick is about the length of you leg. My instructor said that although it is mostly African in origin it also contain elements from European fencing. The names of themoves/target are also English based.
The art calls for a lot of wrist movement.
BTW sugarcane would make a horrible fighting stick. It breaks very easily.
I'll keep you all informed as I learn more.>
Post: Hengest:
[quote=bajanmaster I'll keep you all informed as I learn more.[/quote
Please do mate. I for one am certainly intrigued to know more. :)>
Post: bajanmaster:
There are different style of which my instructor knows some. He knows a little of a style called Sword and he taught us that.
He has moved on to a stlye called Queensburry. (He has studied much more of Queensburry than Sword.) Qb is much more flashy with a lot of stick movement and false attacks. Queensburry apparently focusses more on forearm strikes than on backhand one. Also the attacks use a lot of wrist movement.
Tell you more when I learn more.>
Post: bajanmaster:
Last week we began to look at Queensburry 2nd. We were doing blocks agains the stricks from Sword 1st. In QB 2nd you hold the stick at both ends, it is good for defendong stong attacks and moving in on the opponent. We didn't do the stricks yet but they mostly involve punches with the 2 ends of the stick and doing strikes in a ripping motion.
When I get more info I'll tell you more.>
Post: zefff:
Damn man! A shame you post this a few weeks back? I was in Barbados and would have loved to have seen a bit of this! :(>
Post: Hengest:
Great stuff bajanmaster. Keep it coming.>
Post: bamboo:
Bajanmaster-
Nice posts! Very informative, please do it coming as Hengest wrote.>
Post: bajanmaster:
Sorry for not posting in so long. I have learned QB3 now. The strikes are angular downwards and upwards and vertical head and groin shots. The defence is more about deflection/evasion for th downward strike and cutting out at the upward strikes. Footwork is very important in this level. Also a lot of the "blocks" in this level are such that they are the chamberred position of your own strikes. This decrease the time between defence and attack sometime removing it completely.
My school has a web site with a forum, if you want more info come to visit and ask a question on the forum.
Home page - http://www.umaabarbados.com
Forum - http://umaabarbados.com/forum/>
Post: Hengest:
Hey bajanmaster, good to see you back!>
Post: zefff:
Ahh I miss the island :( Hey Bajanmaster, where on the island is your school?>
Post: bajanmaster:
In Bridgetown.>
Post: zefff:
Cool, next time I am in Barbados I will do my best to track it down as Bridgetown isnt that big...some dodgy alleys though :lol: What other arts you know of are practised on the island?
Edit: Cool I found the address, 15 Roebuck Street. I WILL BE THERE!!!...ONE DAY!!! :lol:>
Post: bajanmaster:
I went to a lecture on it. It turns out that Bajans (Barbadians) had a reputation in the Caribbean of being great stick fighters. There is even an old calypso from Grenada were the singer says he is going to going into the town like a Bajan Stick Fighter and basicly mash up the place. Grenada had its own styles but there must have been something impressive about the Bajan style that made him mention it.
More info when I get it.>
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