In need of academic martial arts resources.
Original Poster: Darkender
Forum: Others
Posted On: 13-09-2005, 03:08
Orginal Post: Darkender: My name is Rich Basile, I've recently obtained my first degree (cho dan) black belt in Tang Soo Do. I've been training for ten years under Master Robert E. Beaudoin and for the past 6 months under Master Warren H. Adams. I'm a member of the World Tang Soo Do Assoc. but I train outside of the association, namely under Master Adams.
Now that the formalities are over with... more formalities. I'm a sophomore college student at one of the branch campuses of Uconn and I'm taking a class where the only assignment is a full blown research paper. Seeing as I've had a considerable amount of training and have a genuine interest in Tang Soo Do I've decided to write a martial arts oriented paper.
I would like to write a paper discussing whether or not world-wide martial arts organizations (WTSDA, WTF, etc) lead to a dilussion of the quality of technique, students, teachers, and moral principles of the martial arts. The only problem I may run into is finding some academic sources for my paper.
While I think I can find other scholarly works (books published by university publishing houses or published in acadmeic journals) in the field of I/O psychology, sociology, and possibly anthropology, I don't know where I'd go about finding some academic resources written by martial artists about the martial arts.
I was hoping that some of the older and/or more experianced martial artists here in the forums could direct me towards some scholarly martial arts sources (books and/or journals) on any martial arts topics (however "americanization" and mainstream martial arts organizations would be choice topics). I appreciate all help very much.
Post: shurite44:
[quote=Darkender
I would like to write a paper discussing whether or not world-wide martial arts organizations (WTSDA, WTF, etc) lead to a dilussion of the quality of technique, students, teachers, and moral principles of the martial arts. The only problem I may run into is finding some academic sources for my paper.[/quote
I think I would come up with a different topic. I don't think you will find any sources for this story.>
Post: nbotary:
Dude, I don't envy you for the choice you decided to write about. You're biggest two problems right out of the chute are going to be that 1.) finding literature will be difficult and 2.) anything you do find will probably be based on opinion more than anything.
Personally, I would choose a more "scientific" topic such as the study of chi flow through the body or the effects of Chinese medicine in the Western medical community. At least something like that you will have tangible and factual proof that you won't have trouble citing.
Best of luck to you.>
Post: Tease T Tickle:
your best bet is to obtain books about the history of the art. For example, if you had published material on Tae Kwon Do on hand, you could make some claims like, "In the earlier half of last century, it was commonplace for Tae Kwon Do practicioners to severely injure themselves in the course of practice. Understandably, students had to be very dedicated to the art and the learning curve was steep; to become a master required every ounce of personal strength. Now, under the tutelage of the ITF, WTF and other international organizations, Tae Kwon Do training - while incredibly widespread - contains extensive amounts of safety equipment, has placed rules that minimize the chance of injury and have opened classes to children as young as five. Clearly, the globalization of Tae Kwon Do and the incorporation of international governing bodies for the schools has weakened the art, making it the playground for children and weekend warriors rather than dedicated students."
Or some such.>
Post: Darkender:
shurite44:
There are sources out there as I've done "broad" papers concearning the martial arts before. My previous martial arts paper was on martial sport (chiefly sport judo and sport tae kwon do) and the martial sports detrimental effect on the identity and techniques of he martial arts.
The only thing you have to do is search. Professors are required by their university to write a certain number of articles in their field (usually at least one a year) to stay employed, so if a professor works at a university for 10 years that's at least ten papers. I hope/figure that since there are thousands of professors world wide, some of them have to be martial artists and draw upon their art of source material. I'm looking for their articles. I was just curious to know if anyone on the foum knows of any.
BTW, I will happily send that paper I wrote to anyone upon their request if they want to give it a once over.
nbotary:
Good point about a lot of it being opinion driven, but when you think about it, a lot of the martial arts advancements are opinion driven. For example, Kyokushin Karate was Mas Oyama's opinion as to how karate was to be done, Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do was Grandmaster Hwang Kee's opinion as to how his amalgam of styles (chinese, korean, and japanese) should have been done. A fact is nothing more than the best supported opinion.
I also like the way you talked about an eastern way in a western world concearning chinese medicene. That is in essense what I am wirting about, I am writing about an eastern way (the martial arts) in a western world (large scale corporate - intentionally or not - organizations).
TTT:
I appreciate the input of your well written response, it actually sounds a bit like that paper I wrote on martial sports, I agree with what you have written as it is a problem that not only Tae Kwon Do faces, but all "modern martial arts" do as well. However it doesn't help me out too much. I have historical texts and I know what I want to write for the most part, the only problem is that most of the martial art history and facts I have (albeit a few interviews I can get from local Tang Soo Do masters) are not considered scholarly. They are not from universities journals or published texts.
Everyone:
I appreciate all input, but perhaps I should rephrase what I'm looking for. I'm looking for anyone who has any knowledge of scholarly sources (the university published books, like harvards publishing house, or UCLA's publishing house, etc. or those scholarly journals, perhaps a journal of martial arts studies.
So what I'm really looking for is for someone who is in college (either student or professor) who can perhaps look in the their library one day (even jsut do an internet search of your library if it has that capabilities) and tell me if you find anything even remotely related to the martial arts.
I realize that my posts are very long, so I appreciate anyone that reads through them and can provide me with any insight in the task I am about to take up.>
Post: nbotary:
Ironically I was originally thinking along the same lines as Tease, but wasn't sure that was the right course... After having read his post, I realize I should've stayed with my instinct... I agree with him that you should try and find as much as you can on the history of the art itself. However, you should still make sure that you interview enough people considered to be genuine authorities on the subject and get their opinions as well. You'll be amazed at how many "authorities" you speak to will not acutally know the true history of their art, how and why it originated and spread and or how much it has changed and why over the course of time. Make sure you take everything down and dissect it into a format that's easy for the layman to understand and comprehend.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Darkender,
There is a martial artist named Dr. Robert Beasley, I believe, who founded a whole department based upon martial arts studies and theories. I do not recall the name of the university but it was a generally accredited university, I believe somewhere in Ohio or Pennsylvania. His basis premise was to have a legitimate degree program, based upon the Beijing Wushu Institute and Beijing University format where a curriculum was created for retired Wushu artists, traditional artists, etc. could explore and write peer reviewed papers on topics like Nbotary, Tease, and others mentioned here.
My suggestion would be to go to Google and see if you could find a listing on Dr. Beasley, the Beijing University program, etc. Also, I do know that Dr. Yang Jwing Ming has written several books looking at chi and qigong, what your style would call ki, and the relationship to electric impulses and other biological and other factors that can be measured. He is a doctor in physics and masters in engineering, and every time he would come to Houston to visit us and give a seminar, he would relate it all to Ohm's Law....laughing.
From a Tae Kwon Do perspective, I would suggest trying to find a South Korean government or military site, and email them to see if they could suggest any type of study being performed at Seoul University along the same lines from a Korean perspective.
Your topic is generally good but you need bona fide peer reviewed subject matter for a decent grade.
Those would be my suggestions.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
One other thing, I will look at my Internet Library from my graduate studies to see if there is any help there. If so, maybe I can down load and send it to you. Can you give me a specific topic you want to research with peer reviewed sourcework?>
Post: bamboo:
http://www.goviamedia.com/
- Journal of Asian Martial Arts- scholarly articles and papers- NOT a "black belt" type rag.
http://ejmas.com/They publish electronicaly and hard copies of:
InYo: The Journal of Alternative Perspectives on the Martial Arts and Sciences ISSN 1492-1669
Journal of Combative Sport ISSN 1492-1650
Journal of Non-lethal Combatives ISSN 1492-1634
Journal of Theatrical Combatives ISSN 1492-1626
Journal of Western Martial Art ISSN 1492-1642
Journal of Manly Arts: European and Colonial Combatives, 1776 - 1914 (a subsection of JWMA)
Physical Training: Fitness for Combatives ISSN 1492-1685
The Iaido Journal ISSN 1492-1677
Kronos: A Chronological History of the Martial Arts and Combative Sports
Hope this helps.
bamboo>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Darkender,
I just typed martial arts into a peer reviewed database under Finance at my university and 1276 articles came up. Interestingly, the preponderance of them concerned using martial arts as a control methodology for handling overaggression in children or self-esteem issues. Another topic was the parallel development of martial arts and certain religions like Buddhism, Confuciousism, Daosim, etc. and whether one caused the growth or promulgation of the others. Another fascinating topic was the affect of martial arts on various kinds of development in Asian cinema and entertainment. These are some topics that I have found so far that have peer reviewed sources.>
Post: nbotary:
Darkender - I have a couple of books that are in my library that may or may not be of use to you. The first is "Secrets of the Samurai: A Survey of the Martial Arts of Feudal Japan" by Oscar Ratti and Adele Westbrook. Another book is "Japan's Ultimate Martial Art: Jujitsu before 1882 The Classical Japanese Art of Self-Defence" by Darrell Craig. Both of these books contain a lot of fact based knowledge on the fighting systems of Japan. From there, you might be able to compare and contrast what was and now what is. Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming also has several texts that you might find helpful to you - although they deal primarily with Chinese Arts (unless it makes no difference in you paper). You can also reference Dr. Yang's website at www.ymaa.com Other than that, I would suggest you also check out the martial arts section of your local libraries and bookstores as well as interview as many instructors as you can. Look up some schools on the internet and try and contact them. Set up an e-mail interview if you can't do it by phone. By the way, I'd be interested in reading a copy of your paper when it's finished...>
Post: bamboo:
I have issues with the first two books you've mentioned but I digress. My own questions can be found on this site wit the search function.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
To elaborate on something Nbotary said, since you are looking for valid sources through peer review, might I suggest that you pick certain masters in your art or be diverse and pick some in other arts, like the Chinese arts I study, and find reputable masters who are well reknowned by other masters. For instance, like Nbotary recommended Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, but you could also look up George Xu for internal, Brendan Lai for preying mantis, Leung Shum for eagle claw, etc. You should also look into the Art of War by Sun Tzu and the Book of Five Rings by Musashi. For Japanese arts like aikido, of course find anything on Ueshiba (sorry if I mispelled here), or Mas Oyama for external art. In other words, if you can convince your Professor that these particular writings or teachers are recognized by other masters as the top level ones, then that might serve as a peer review. I would obviously ask Tease or someone else on here who has gone further than my soon to be masters to help you here on whether these could be construed as peer reviewed.>
Post: setsu nin to:
Darkender
In my opinion it would be much better that you contact real persons. Contact authorities of organizations that you choose for your work and wrote to them. Ask them about their opinion about problem, than find people who were on same place in same organizations before todays authorities come and find whats their view on same problem. Than find few traditional teachers and get whats their view on same problem. And than in the end compare all views on problem and take conclusion. Books and articles from magazines use just as make up, maybe to point some changes in views of some people and for introduction where you should write in short about Tang Soo Do, to explain what TSD is and whats point of you work.
If you have some questions you may send me PM.>
Post: shurite44:
[quote=Darkender shurite44:
There are sources out there as I've done "broad" papers concearning the martial arts before. My previous martial arts paper was on martial sport (chiefly sport judo and sport tae kwon do) and the martial sports detrimental effect on the identity and techniques of he martial arts.
[/quote
Well I taught accredited martial arts programs for Ohio State University until I retired from there. So I am quite familiar with legitimate papers and journals. I still think you are going to have a hard time coming up with articles about this topic.
Quote: whether or not world-wide martial arts organizations (WTSDA, WTF, etc) lead to a dilussion of the quality of technique, students, teachers, and moral principles of the martial arts. The only problem I may run into is finding some academic sources for my paper.
Not that it can not be done, personally I agree with nbotary, pick out something that is not going to be based solely on opinion. And maybe not quite so accusatorial and inflammatory. Not sure I would go with chi, but maybe something like the trend of martial arts from jitsu to do.
To delude basically means to be false to; be dishonest. So your paper will be about whether martial arts organizations dishonestly presented false techniques and moral principles. In other words the founders of the organizations knew an authentic martial art but deceptively taught a false art intentionally. I am not saying it is impossible to find legitimate sources but I don't see it being anymore than an opinion either way. And quite frankly I would be skeptical of anyone who actually exposed this idea. And I don't see very many legitimate historians or martial artists putting much effort into the topic.
I wonder if you possibly meant to use the word dilution instead of delusion.
dilution:
The process of making weaker or less concentrated.
A dilute or weakened condition.
A diluted substance.
Now this topic has many articles written about it.
Oh well it would be interesting. You probably should post it or submit it as an article here so we can read it. Good luck with it.>
Post: Darkender:
Wow, what a good amount of info, I'll be sure to follow all the leads given to. I should point out that shurite was indeed correct when he concluded that I meant to use the word dilution (the english language can be hell without a spell check or an amazing knowledge of the language.) All of the sources provided will definetly be looked into in the very near future. At this point of the paper all we need to do is look into viable resources for the paper, it isn't until possibly another 2 or 3 weeks I being actually drafting a complete version of the paper.
As far as interviews go, I plan on interviewing both of my head insturctors as Master Beaudoin is the secretary general of the WTSDA, and Master Adams was a former member, and one time regional director for region 9 (new england more or less) for the WTSDA.
And just to clarify, the topic of my paper is to investigate whether or not the exsistance of large scale (world-wide, perhaps even statewide) dilutes the techniques and moral principles of the respective martial art it governs.>
Post: Bloodybirds:
Just a side comment. It is gratifying to find such a diverse background on here, not just martial artists like myself but people in other fields as well. In my short time here, I have absorbed a lot. Thanks to everyone for their feed back. Wish I had known about this site earlier in my master's program. Maybe Stats and Organizational behavior would have made more sense...laughing. Talk to everyone soon. Have a safe evening.>
Post: Hengest:
nbotary: I'm with bamboo on those first two books you mentioned. They're both huge steaming piles of poo in terms of research. Bin them and be done with it.>
Post: nbotary:
Hengest - REALLY??? 8O :? What's the story behind them? Are the authors not legit?>
Post: Hengest:
[quote=nbotary Hengest - REALLY??? 8O :? What's the story behind them? Are the authors not legit?[/quote
bamboo can probably tell you more about Darrell Max Craig than I, but from what I can gather, he's thought of as a bit of a charlatan in the aikido world. What I can tell you is that that book is utter, utter crap. I remember picking it up in a bookstore a little while ago. I got as far as page 3 before realising that the guy does not have a single clue what he is talking about.
Do me a favour. Pick the book up and turn to page 3. It is chocka with huge, ginormous, staggeringly mossiff errors. He claims that all "jujitsu" descends from Daito Ryu. He classes sojutsu, bojutsu and jojutsu (among others) as styles of jujutsu. In the list of "ryuha", he seems to have no comprehension of the difference between a "-jutsu" and a "ryuha". In the same list, he includes tetsubojutsu, a style that, although it probably existed, there is no record of a single ryuha for. And to top it all off, most of the list is simply lifted from Draeger and Smith's far superior Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts, including the terms gekiganjutsu and genkotsu, two of the most obscure terms in Japanese martial art. Like I say mate, just bin it.
The Ratti/Westbrook book is not quite on the same level of crapness, but I think that one or both of the authors may be three-feet tall and see planes a lot, cos they seem to be living on Fantasy Island. So, to be on the safe side, bin that one too.>
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