Speed problems
Original Poster: aldarianraider
Forum: Others
Posted On: 27-11-2004, 19:49
Orginal Post: aldarianraider: Hey, small problem I'm having...actually, it can be quite a big problem...I'm having a bit of trouble with some speed. I can't seem to get my arms and legs fast enough for some techniques. I'll have a spurt of speed every now and then, but I was wondering how I could increase my abilities. I was thinking about attatching weights on my wrists and ankles, but that's all that I could think of. Any ideas? I'd really appreciate any input.
Post: Umy:
This is quite a typical question (scary, sounded like something id say in the old forum :shock: ).
Im sure most of the guys will agree that the best way to increase speed is through practice, punch, punch and punch some more then you'll get faster hands, same goes for most other techniques.
Infact my handspeed increased greatly through regular shadowboxing, the more you do something the quicker you can do it.>
Post: wuming:
Relaxation.
I have no clue what martial art you study, so I can't make and conclusions on your training habits. But, aside from repetition, if you learn to relax your body while fighting you will be able to move more fluidly and therefore quickly. It is just that you can't completely relax like a limp noodle. There is a fine balance to the relaxation and tension -- a very fine balance.>
Post: confusingDot:
yeah, i'd just like ot agree with wuming. relax. and also have the right mindset. The mind controls the body. think of the power and speed you're gonna put into punch or whatever technique.>
Post: bushidoka:
post in the training section, and I will post an in-depth answer. Speed is an illusion, as speed is really irrelevant(so kill me), if you see it, it is slow, if you don't see it coming, it is fast. The ILLUSION of speed is greaty important. Speed is not. Any one care to debate?>
Post: confusingDot:
i would definately like to talk about your views of this.
so what you're saying is that speed is not important at all? and if speed IS important in certain aspects, waht aspects? Do you believe that there are some people who are faster and some people who are slower?>
Post: bushidoka:
Strictly speaking, yes, some people are faster than others. Your natural speed is determined by your muscle twitch fibers, so even though you train to gain speed, you can only become so fast. There are many ways to exaggerate your natural speed, eg using circular motion, staying loose when moving, making your techniques smaller and tighter, not telegraphing your moves, cutting down reaction time, percieving a strike before it begins, etc. None of these actually increase your speed, but others will see you as being much faster than you really are.
A big part of being fast is being able to flow from one tech to another without stopping or breaking your timing. When you strike someone 5-6 times in a couple of seconds, they will believe you to be very fast. If you just 1 - 2 them to death, you will put the guy to sleep, as you will seem to be fighting very slowly.
Range is another factor. When you are firing long shots from the outside, you are going to be much slower than from close range. Where the strike comes from is also important. If it is seen early, the strike will be considered very slow, no matter how fast you are, if the strike is hidden from sight until the last moment, it will be very fast, regardless of whether or not you really are fast.. Thus, most styles have their hidden fist techniques, or ways of masking a strike. In HKD for eg., we throw the lead hand across the persons face as we kick or punch. Timing is another method. We move very slowly until we actually attack or block, then we move very explosively for that split second or so. Distraction is another way, kicking to the leg as you execute a lock or throw for eg.
Of course, we are talking of perceptual speed here. Speed DOES become important, but only when you start to speak of impact, or how hard you hit, then speed becomes the most imprortant factor. Perceptual speed plays no part here.>
Post: wuming:
..... never thought of it that way before bushido.......
I was first getting ready to debate, but now I understand what you mean and totally agree.>
Post: zefff:
we discussed this phenomenon a while back. I tried but couldnt find the thread. I agree with a large portion of what Bushidoka is saying as for me perception (and timing) is the most important ingredient for success. Deception and manipulation of perception. 8) but funnily enough sometimes the mindless, straight forward clouts can be the most fulfilling.>
Post: bushidoka:
Yes Zefff, I agree. Nothing more satisfying than a strong solid hook to the kidney for me! You see that pain flash across their face as they drop to their knees :lol: Very satisfying!>
Post: confusingDot:
so there are three parts speed can play a role in. the force added because of the speed, which we both agree plays a role. then there is the point of getting the hit in there, which we disagree upon. then there is the speed from the follow up, of punch after, so the opponent will not have enough time between shots to regain his thoughts, or composure, which i'm not sure as of yet, if you agree with, or not.
as you said in getting the punch in there... what is important MUST BE, getting the punch in there. Which depends on the opponents perception of the punch arriving. there are many ways to make it so the punch reaches, and the opponent can't percieve the punch as quickly, and the ways can be combined. and i believe that one of the ways, would be making your punch faster, which i believe you said you disagree with.
so i believe speed plays a role in all three of htese parts. but in all the categories, it is not hte only factor.>
Post: 8LimbsScientist:
Relaxation is an important part of actual physical speed. If you are too tense you'll have all kinds of antagonistic muscles slowing down the limb you are trying to move quickly.
Also, plyometrics to improve the explosive strength of the relevant muscles is important.
I don't remember where I heard this (maybe it was these forums :oops: ) but some people mentally scream the word "Explode!" during sparring whenever they want to explode into a flurry. Maybe try that? A lot of fighting is mental.>
Post: Gong||Jau:
Bushidoka raised a lot of good points. The fastest strike is the one you don't expect. Actual hand speed is really not that important (although it plays a role) if you're trying to land a lot of strikes on someone. The most important thing (IMO) is getting people into a position where you can easily hit them.>
Post: zefff:
ConfusingDot - I believe if the opponent can intercept our intentions then it doesnt matter how fast our strikes are, we will always be slower than him.
8limbs - Explode? Haha! reminds me of the centurions cartoon! :lol: was gonna say what someone who screams that should expect but then reread and saw the word "mentally". :roll:>
Post: Umy:
Interesting points, especially ''The fastest strike is the one you don't expect''.
I think feinting and bobbing and weaving or other tricks to open your man up and will really help what some of the guys are saying.
The hardest punches Ive ever taken are the ones that seemed to come from no-where and left me seeing stars and rolling along the ropes in hope of some recovery time :lol: .>
Post: 8LimbsScientist:
[quote=zefff 8limbs - Explode? Haha! reminds me of the centurions cartoon! :lol: was gonna say what someone who screams that should expect but then reread and saw the word "mentally". :roll:[/quote
I mentally say "explode" but I loudly yell "Take that" in a dramatic deep ringing voice with every strike. Also, whenever someone tries to hit me I say "touche" or "No Match" depending if they are successful or not.>
Post: zefff:
"Take that!"
I like it :lol:>
Post: confusingDot:
zeff- from waht i wrote, i think it was easy to understand that i did not disagree taht how easily our strike is percieved was extremely important. but i did believe that speed was downplayed too much when it was said that "The ILLUSION of speed is greaty important. Speed is not. ". i believe that speed IS quite important in how quickly someone can percieve a strike.
if a strike was not percieved, but it had no speed. then how would it reach the opponent? If a strike had alot of speed, but alot of perception, then it would be of no use either.
why would you direct that quote towards me, if i agree with you?
do NOT think that i am one who takes sides, and don't make me out to be one. my signature is not something i just like to say, but something i try to practice.>
Post: zefff:
maybe I didnt read your post slowly enough. No worries.
respect>
Post: bushidoka:
if a strike was not percieved, but it had no speed. then how would it reach the opponent? If a strike had alot of speed, but alot of perception, then it would be of no use either
CD makes a valid point here. I am assuming that all strikes thrown have a base speed behind it. Perceptual speed is very important, maybe more so is reaction speed. it is debatable which is more important. Also important is transitional speed, how quickly you move from attack to defense, from hard to soft, linear to circular, etc.
I've been saying that speed is an illusion, but that does not mean that I do not believe in being fast, just that there are different conceptions of speed, or different ways of conceiving speed, and of course, introducing speed, but speed is the most important part of the impact equation. Nothing else will increase you impact as speed will. I am just making a point for the idea that speed is more involved than the apparent, or what you see.
I still do speed drills, but they are not to develop speed any longer, I am as fast as I will ever be, it has already been pre-determined, now I just do them to maintain speed and continuity or flow. Explosive speed is greatly important, can't express the importance of this enough
will post tomorrow more indepth, just getting caught up here :)>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: if a strike was not percieved, but it had no speed. then how would it reach the opponent?
Easy, body postioning. Uke can be led straight into an unmoving object by simple body placement. I hardly strike anymore in a traditional sense of the word when doing randori, through the use of body placement an attacker with real intention will not (at least the smart ones) give up their back, nor will they want you in their blind spots, its as uke is turning or repositioning themselves for a takedown or to better place themselves to strike, nage's open hand or closed fist, forearm, etc is waiting in the very spot uke needs to be to regain balance and execute a decent offense.
just thought I'd add my 2cents (cdn)
bamboo>
Post: Ninja Kl0wn:
Why has the obvious not been stated? It doesn't matter how fast or slow you are, just how good your timing is.>
Post: bushidoka:
Sometimes, it is not how fast it travels that matters, but how soon it gets there that counts. Anyone know who said this?
Good twist on the quote bamboo, I had to sit and think it through, but if there is no perception of a strike, no speed with which to work with, you would have to initiate the attack. Not that that wouldn't work :wink: Good desc. of execution of armbar etc., though.>
Post: confusingDot:
ok... how about htis???
waht is important in getting a strike to hit (i assume that is now the question we are dealing with, and no other, and if it's wrong, please state otherwise) (although this isn't the question FIRST stated in this thread, it is the one i believe we are dealing with now)?
It should be how long it takes from the moment it is percieved by the opponent till it hits the opponent. So if you allow your strike to get closer before it is percieved, then the time is shortened, and also if you have more speed, then the time is shortened as well.
As the time increases, then the chances of the opponent blocking (or otherwise) are increased, and as the time decreases, then the chances of the opponent blocking (or otherwise) decrease.>
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