When the teacher stops caring
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: Others
Posted On: 15-12-2004, 15:41
Orginal Post: bamboo: So, you have a small club with a good sold base of hard working students and two that have been at it for over a year but just don't listen. They are at most very irritating and at worst abit like gum on your shoes.
The instructor has given all sorts of extra help including private classes at no charge but they just don't get it. These two have of course attended a plethora of seminars and always come back to the dojo with a flashy technique that won't work on anyone and then get told to work on the basics. They look for the secrets everywhere but in the basics, and are told repeatedly to work on the basics.
Now, the instructors has just lost interest in teaching them. The general consensus is "why bother" as they never listen. Classes are at a harder pace now and are much, much better....at the expense of these two students.
Any opinions?
Post: zefff:
You can bring the horse to water mate, but you cant make it drink.
These people need to think about why they do the things they do. If I were the instructor I would ask them why they come to the class and what do they hope to get from it? Also HOW are they foing to achieve their aim. If they cant see the logic then they are full of fear and clinging to delusion or they are of low intelligence. I would freely announce my conclusion...but they may not come back. :roll:>
Post: 8LimbsScientist:
I agree with Zefff. I honestly don't think martial arts are for everyone, and it takes a certain type of person to be good at them.
I would do all the steps you mentioned in your original post, and then as a last ditch effort, take them aside and explain to them EXACTLY what you are thinking about them. Let them now that what they are learning at seminars is bs, and that the key to any building is its foundation. You can build any kind of beautiful building you want to, but if its foundation isn't secure it will fall. By the same token, if these two cannot wrap their minds around the basics of their martial art, they can never progress beyond them.
The basics alone will get you through a lot of problems...>
Post: confusingDot:
maybe what they want is the flashy techniques, and maybe they should try a different studio.>
Post: lil'sword:
show them that they cant do squat then maybe they will listen. Talking and persuading will only get so far. If they dont like finding out that they cant do squat, let them quit, or give them the oppertunity to actually start learning without being concerned over flashy techniques.>
Post: Bushi:
I am suprised there is so much effort to bring them up to speed. If I remember correctly ASU usually holds to the old "steal my techniques" form of instruction.
If they do not get it, then they did not want it enough to steal it.>
Post: The BadBoy:
These two will probably open up a Mcdoje and teach the five finger touch of death after a few years. :(>
Post: bamboo:
Quote: I am suprised there is so much effort to bring them up to speed. If I remember correctly ASU usually holds to the old "steal my techniques" form of instruction.
Very much so bushi, the effort was mine as far as private instruction and what not. I just felt "defeated" as I wanted to help them, it just seems that they have regressed instead of made any progress.
Your all right, MAs are not for everyone, and Bushi, again, as you said
Quote: If they do not get it, then they did not want it enough to steal it.
Our school is very much a "steal" the technique type of place, I think hearing it from someone else has resonated with me.
Cheers all!
bamboo>
Post: zefff:
Okay to bring it back on topic,
some one else touched on it I think it might have been badboy, but is it possible that when teachers stop caring what we end up with is delusional students who never really express the art because they wont examine and reveal themselves truthfully?
Is it really worth keeping students who are not honest with themself?>
Post: jlambvo:
Why are you making this guy's day by acknowledging his presence? It seems clear to me that he's using Villari because its obviously a sham and almost makes his poor acting job a believable delusion. He's just trying to derail the threads.
Bamboo, I have a story that I caught the tail end of when I started training. I don't remember the details real well :) and this sounds so cheesy-inspirational BS its hard for ME to stomach it, so bear with me.
This student had been training for a year and a half or so, and was stuck at 8th kyu about this whole time. People would come in and train for a couple months and outrank him (including myself). Everyone who partnered with him became part of a struggle. There were a few simple things he just didn't get. You would go in with the clearest of minds and the best intentions, and walk away exasperated beyond your imagination. The worst was his way of dealing with his frustrations, often taking it out on peers verbally or physically. He was once doing a soft free-response drill with a dan grade, and started to get so uncontrolled with it, the senior guy got fed up and jacked him in the face.
We had two main instructors at the time. One tried everything he could do to reach this kid--and he is a great teacher by anyone's count. One thing they always told him: "gambatte" (keep going). I would watch him spend large portions of the class, for weeks, with him alone working on the most basic of movements. Eventually he got so fed up, he tried to make training difficult enough that maybe the guy would stop showing up. For some reason he kept coming back.
Several months after I was there, he still hadn't been promoted, and we found out he was enlisting in the army, hoping to get into specops or something. Most of us kind of groaned at the idea in private. After two years he couldn't step at a 45 degree angle even when he got whacked with a shinai by the end every time he got it wrong. We didn't think he would last a week in boot camp. But he disappeared and we didn't see him again.
So.. apparently in some of their conversations, instructor A says to B: "I"ve tried everything I can. That kid canNOT be taught," and B replied "Maybe you just can't be the right teacher for him."
Christmas mebbe half a year later, my teachers got an email from him, said he was doing fine, he had completed training, and that the only reason he did it was because he kept reminding himself "gambatte, gambatte." He's now an airborn combat medic, and came back for a couple classes while on leave before going to Iraq. It was interesting to see him such a different person.
So... I think I had something more concrete in mind to relate to the students in your case, but... the idea maybe is that, everyone learns differently, so you have to be a very flexible teacher. Well, not that you HAVE to, but in some cases you really have to put your teaching paradigms aside and explore totally different ways of getting at students. Maybe more important is that in this anecdote of mine, "gambatte" applied just as much to the teacher as the student. Umm... sorry I don't know if this is making ANY sense, take something from it if you can :)>
Post: bamboo:
Jlambvo,
Good advice, "Gambatte" is often heard in my classes. Another thing for me to keep in mind is that I'm a junior instructor just learning how to teach these guys. Its hard to say the least.
Abit of an update on the situation.
The main person in question sent me (and the other junior instructor) an email this morning telling us thanks for the patience. He sees it as a focus problem , but I will continue to try "other" methods (change is hard for me! :wink: ) to help. Although I firmly believe in the "steal technique" methods, I also know this person is a good person and loves the art, I can't give up.
On an aside, I never in my life would have thought that an internet site would have an effect on me, especially when dealing with faceless people.
Thanks to all.
my best,
steve>
Post: dscott:
Quote:
On an aside, I never in my life would have thought that an internet site would have an effect on me, especially when dealing with faceless people.
Thanks to all.
I definitely have to agree with that statement. When I first started here I actually started a fight w/ you because I just assumed that everyone was a 12 year old kid posing as a Master telling me I was wrong. I have to apologize. I don't know if you've noticed but I come here for a lot of advise on stuff other than MA.>
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