Systema in MMA
Original Poster: MA dude
Forum: Russian Martial Arts
Posted On: 01-09-2004, 13:10
Orginal Post: MA dude: There is a clip near the bottom of the page showing a person with a year of Systema training using Systema in sport JJ. Which is basically a modified mma format. He used Systema well despite the fact that sport jj rules restrict some Systema techniques. http://groups.msn.com/RMAHamilton/videoclips.msnw
Post: Ninja Kl0wn:
That's the specific video clip. Haven't watched it though. The server must be hosted in Bulgaria or something, and I don't feel like waiting for a 15mb file to download at 3k/s on a 3mb connection.>
Systema doesn't emphasize techniques, MA dude. It emphasizes spontaneous and uninhibited movement - the so-called techniques are merely spontaneous manifestations and case studies of that movement and vary vastly from person to person. Take BJJ, for instance. At the end of the day, juji gatame and kimura locks are irrelevant - it's all about hierarchy of position, and every single BJJ man has a different way of going about dominating the position game. Take Royler and Rickson, for instance - brothers and training partners for donkey's years, but they both grapple and fight very differently.
That said, various MMA fighters have been accused throughout the years of Systema training or influence, either direct or indirect, among them Oleg Taktarov, Igor Vovchanchyn and Fedor Emelianko. Apparently, during the development of Sambo, there was a great deal of covert spillover from the System in all its forms to the new martial art. Hence, Sambo grapplers might be said to employ certain Systema concepts in their fighting style, though this will vary from fighter to fighter. On the whole, the ones that emphasize 'softness' and yielding and transitional flow the most - like Taktarov - might be the closest thing one might see to the full System being employed in the MMA ring thus far. Likewise, Fedor is said to throw circular strikes that look very loose and relaxed and yet hit very hard - another characteristic of the System.
Some food for thought.>
Post: MA dude:
[quote=Wilhelm von WÃ¤nkensteÃ¯n the full System being employed in the MMA ring thus far. Likewise, Fedor is said to throw circular strikes that look very loose and relaxed and yet hit very hard - another characteristic of the System.
Some food for thought.[/quote
I also heard about Fedor using a ROSS concept called casting in his punches. Anyways here is some stuff from the site about the things he used
"Furtry in a sport JJJ tournament after a year of systema. Elements were added to his game at this point. This is not pure systema, as that would get him disqualified. For example, systema kicks would not be recognized as legit techniques by the refs, so kickboxing-ish kicks were used instead. Specific systema elements follow:
9 - 12 secs - takedown counter to roundhouse. See H2H series
1:03 - 1:09 - takes hit to head, but using systema flinch/yeild tactic
minimizes impact, and so continues unphazed. Observe that the
foot off the round kick comes straight down, signifying follow-through
and not snapping. See H2H series.
1:26 - 1:29 - Using systma movement tactics, evades all strikes of a 3 strike combo.
See H2H series.
1:38 - 1:40 - Using systema relaxation technique, softens leg so that round kick passes through.
Uses resulting torque to power systema whip strike (see H2H series for whip strike).
2:04 - 2:06 -soft leg again
2:09 - 2:11 - systema whipping fists (see H2H). The nice thing about this one
is that you can either get a lot of hits or a lot of space with not much energy use.
3:15 - 3:18 - this is a straight-up tai otoshi, but in systema you will see variants on this kind of throw.
Usually an 'illegal' one. Illegal for judo, anyway.
3:36 -37 - Tapout (you can see the glove flash by my friend's left shoulder).
But... well, My friend's a nidan and he's a godan... old boyz network? I dunno. My buddy goes along
with it, but now he's a bit pissed, and that plus the fatigue puts him
in old-school bullrush mode.
4:03 for a while - Beauchamp, knowing my buddy's now out for blood,
physically grabs my buddy from the bottom, giving up Osaekomi points instead of
taking his licks. In fact, you can see my buddy struggling to get off him. Rules prevented striking with elbows or knees.
Fight's over, Furtry takes gold.">
One member of the RMA community I've met online is Demetry Furman, and he apparently is a competitive grappler. He is also a long-time Systema practitioner (of course :P ) and while I know next to nothing about his fighting style, it's a pretty safe bet to assume he works the System into what he does.
As for casting, I've never actually heard it being referred to in that way in my own admittedly informal Systema training, but the principle is exactly the same - we throw a lot of circular strikes with first and foremost a feeling of throwing the hit off the punching arm so the K.E. doesn't bounce back into use. Next and perhaps most importantly comes the feeling of lazily dropping the hit into an opponent (if the hit is an upwards one, gravity pulls upwards for the purposes of the punch :lol: ), and this makes a massive difference to the amount of power transmitted. I originally did 'hard' martial arts like karate and the like and I'm both trained and used to taking strikes according to those methods, but my Systema training buddies - all of whom are significantly lighter than myself - can floor me with body shots if they catch me unawares and tense. As it is, some of those punches go so deep that I get knocked to my knees even if I'm prepared to soak. The capper came one night when we were discussing groundfighting and mount escapes. One guy who has little to no groundfighting experience suggested striking his way out of the mount, to which I replied with the conventional wisdom that strikes from the bottom position are ineffective and a waste of energy, at best. Without any windup, any body movement whatsoever, he dropped his right fist upwards straight into my chest over the heart. The only reason why my heart didn't jump right out my mouth that night was because my lungs were fighting to get ahead in the queue :shock:
After that episode, I learned the drill that is used to develop hitting power for such situations. Haven't looked back since :mrgreen:>
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