Best calithenics book/program.
Original Poster: Superflex
Forum: Bodyweight Exercises
Posted On: 26-06-2006, 13:44
Orginal Post: Superflex: What's up fellas,
I am looking for body weight training. I found this forum by search, nice that you have a part of forum specific to body weight.
Does anyone have any of the three that I am thinking of getting.
Ross's undeground
Zaichik's GravityAdvantage (the ads are all ove this forum)
Bubik Dinosour training.
Just want a good over all program, using only body weight and minimal equipment for strength and size.
Thanks boys.
Post: angryrocker4:
It's gonna be super hard to get strength and size off body weight training, you can build super endurance though. You could probably find an excellent program without buyin a book, just take a day on google and search.>
Post: Superflex:
Thanks,
Since I don't have access to the equipment, I have to use body weight. Plus I know some exercise out there do build strength, like a one arm push up or pull up, most people can't do high reps, so it is strength. Right?>
Post: angryrocker4:
still endurance>
Post: IsshinRyuRocks:
Try www.charlesatlas.com it is truly the best. It worked for me>
Post: Bushi:
[quote=angryrocker4 It's gonna be super hard to get strength and size off body weight training, you can build super endurance though. You could probably find an excellent program without buyin a book, just take a day on google and search.[/quote
Be advised, Eric Dikerson never touched a weight. He only used body weight exercises. He was a beast. Mike Tyson also claimed that prior to prison, he never lifted. He claimed to do all body weight exercises.>
Post: angryrocker4:
BS, now they could be naturally strong guys, but they still wont be that strong without lifting heavy weight. There's certain ways the body reacts, and getting stronger from body weight isnt one of them.>
Post: zefff:
What the hell does strong mean anyway? If it is defined as the ability to lift dead weights then fair enough, but it isnt so you cant say gymnasts and ballet dancers dont have strength can you now? They might be weak when competing against a powerlifter but isnt the lifter weak when he tries the gymnasts game?>
Post: angryrocker4:
Strenght is defined by actual weight lifted in the general sense. I see your point though, but its a difference in strenght and size (as in weightlifting)vs conditioning, endurance, etc. Now ballet and gymnastics, you'll gain strength to deal with whatever load you may have to deal with, but generally its gonna be more about conditioning, momentum, and leverage. You're not going to get strength and size as what is traditionally thought. Even still, most athletes crosstrain with weights FOR the strength and size.
You can get in great shape with body weight stuff, and even get athletic looking, but your not gonna have considerable size or great strength. Swimmers have awesome shoulders, but most wont military press 200lbs. We then get into sport specific training.
Now if he's not concerned about moving weight, then body weight stuff is fine, but he sounded like he wanted some muscle mass.>
Post: kyle0505:
I would recommed checking out warriorforce.com Ross has a new book out never gymless which is for bodyweight exercises. i have two of his books and they can not be beat and he is a totally cool guy>
Post: Superflex:
Ok. let's say shoulder press.
A weight lifter can do let's say 200 lbs shoulder press. He himself weights 200 lbs. Can he do a handstand push ups? Probably not.
A gymnast can do hand stand presses. Can a gymnast do his own body weight standing over head press?
That's the question.>
Post: angryrocker4:
[quote=Superflex Ok. let's say shoulder press.
A weight lifter can do let's say 200 lbs shoulder press. He himself weights 200 lbs. Can he do a handstand push ups? Probably not.
A gymnast can do hand stand presses. Can a gymnast do his own body weight standing over head press?
That's the question.[/quote
Actually, yes the weightlifter can. Thats not to say he wont fall on his face from lack of training for balance a great deal though. The gymnast should also be able to as well, since their muscles would have been trained by a similar press movement to do the same amount of weight. The thing is, the gymnast's strength will stop at whatever body weight they are, unless they add some other type of resistance, but their endurance and all else will continually progress.
Only my opinion, and certainly not true for everyone, but these 2 things would be interchangeable, given that the shoulder/arm alignment is nearly the same. And taking into account one is more of an endurance thing and the other for mass.>
Post: Superflex:
I agree,
but don't you think a gymnast will have to have some level of strength, to be able to do that one handstand push up. By the time he is doint endurance he must have allot of strength.
Also I don't know what the records are, but how many weight lifters can shoulder press more than their own body weight?
I may be wrong.>
Post: angryrocker4:
[quote=Superflex I agree,
but don't you think a gymnast will have to have some level of strength, to be able to do that one handstand push up. By the time he is doint endurance he must have allot of strength.
Also I don't know what the records are, but how many weight lifters can shoulder press more than their own body weight?
I may be wrong.[/quote Yes, bu the gymnast's strenght will only grow to the load he's using, and stop there.
As a powerlifter, I shoulder press more than I weigh.
At 220 I can do 250 for reps. Most serious ones can actually.>
Post: Gong||Jau:
http://www.dragondoor.com
Bodyweight training, done correctly, recruits more muscles than weight training. It builds the same abilities weight lifting does, in addition to others. The opposite is not normally true. Also, by adjusting the leverage in the exercises you do, you can simulate weights much greater than your bodyweight.>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
The physiological definition of strength is the ability of the body's musculoskeletal system to generate tension (usually a static measure) and force (a dynamic measure, ie. with movement involved). Indices of strength are activity-specific and can be developed in any number of ways, so long as resistance is applied to the appropriate musculoskeletal structures, and this can be done with or without external loading. Gymnasts lifting weights for the first time in their lives have been clocked in strength development studies as lifting weights associated wtih competitive powerlifters in their respective weight classes. It's perfectly possible to progressively overload a muscle or groups of muscles without ever using a single weight aside from one's own body, and this is done by manipulating the moment arms of forces acting on the muscles involved. This is exactly what gymnasts do all the time. The downside to all this, of course, is that there is a significant skill component involved and tremendous neuromuscular coordination has to be developed before work can be done to achieve significant strength gains, which is why most folks prefer to pump iron than do planches, handstands and roman rings events. That said, neuromuscular coordination is half of the strength equation and gymnasts have been conclusively shown to demonstrate both greater muscle recruitment as well as stronger action-potentials for a given value of resistance and equivalent muscle cross-sectional area than other larger strength athletes.>
Post: Superflex:
[quote=Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn The physiological definition of strength is the ability of the body's musculoskeletal system to generate tension (usually a static measure) and force (a dynamic measure, ie. with movement involved). Indices of strength are activity-specific and can be developed in any number of ways, so long as resistance is applied to the appropriate musculoskeletal structures, and this can be done with or without external loading. Gymnasts lifting weights for the first time in their lives have been clocked in strength development studies as lifting weights associated wtih competitive powerlifters in their respective weight classes. It's perfectly possible to progressively overload a muscle or groups of muscles without ever using a single weight aside from one's own body, and this is done by manipulating the moment arms of forces acting on the muscles involved. This is exactly what gymnasts do all the time. The downside to all this, of course, is that there is a significant skill component involved and tremendous neuromuscular coordination has to be developed before work can be done to achieve significant strength gains, which is why most folks prefer to pump iron than do planches, handstands and roman rings events. That said, neuromuscular coordination is half of the strength equation and gymnasts have been conclusively shown to demonstrate both greater muscle recruitment as well as stronger action-potentials for a given value of resistance and equivalent muscle cross-sectional area than other larger strength athletes.[/quote
That's what I am talking about, brother.
So a fighter can get just as good with body weight as with weights?
I ask because the is all more body weight equpment freely available than bars and plates.>
Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:
Superflex: For all the science behind this, the answer is amazingly low-tech - do what works and whatever is accessible :lol:
The important thing, ultimately, is to address your needs and goals. Firstly, determine how much strength do you need and in what movements. That will act as a guide as to what exercises you should focus on. Then see what's available to you and work accordingly. Even if all you have is some floor space at home, get creative! Do high-intensity circuits of basic calisthenics - I guarantee they will challenge both your musculoskeletal and cardiovascular systems tremendously. Another very good way to exercise is with partner-resistance - get a partner to provide resistance for any number of exercises you care to name - squats with a partner sitting on your shoulders, pullups with a partner hanging off your waist, pushups with one leaning on your back - the varieties are endless. A lot of wrestling drills like pummeling, neck-wrestling and several flavours of partner-lifting are all great for building functional strength, especially if grappling is your main game. Swimming, especially in natural water with active currents, is a great old-school way to buld strength, albeit somewhat risky, but it's something to consider. Old-school Indian wrestlers swim huge amounts as part of their training. Considering how the greats like Gama and Bhollu made their mark on wrestling history in the early 20th century, and how India and Pakistan are among the world's foremost seven wrestling nations today, they must be doing something right :D Various forms of climbing are also good ways to build functional strength - for instance, rope-climbing using only the upper body or climbing a tree with only your legs (DANGEROUS! This is just an illustration to give you an idea of what I'm suggesting).
Speaking of Indian wrestlers, you could possibly buy a sledgehamer and use it for leveraging exercises and hacking rubber tyres or soft earth/sand.
As you can no doubt tell, I'm a huge fan of old-school or 'dinosaur' training methods :wink:
At the end of the day, necessity plays as great a role in building your training regimen as preference. I personally like doing weights, but I've been stuck without them for periods of time before and I got on just fine with bodyweight training. Ideally, I do a mix of both - bodyweight exercises function as great active rest and they have a recuperative effect on my poor, much-abused joints, which weight training tends to aggravate, especially with all the eccentric ranges of motion I use. Anecdotally, some very good fighters get by entirely on a diet of bodyweight and partner-resistance exercises. Probably one of the more famous examples would be current Pride heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko, who hasn't touched the heavy iron since his army days. Another would be Lee Murray of the UFC - somewhat less successful, but, looking at that ripped physique of his, you'd think he was doing something right :D Besides, a man who knocked out Tito Ortiz in a street fight can't possibly be bad, eh?
I apologise for the novel, but, as with most things, the answer is never simple :lol: In summary, I would advise you to first take stock of what you have available to you and run with that. Try to get a partner - it helps with both motivation and expanding your repertoire of available exercises, and always be ready to adapt as your available repertoire changes. If you do your research and get creative, there's no limit to what you can achieve.>
Post: Superflex:
Thanks for such a detailed answer.
I am looking at some books/videos to expand my horizons.
YOu are tottaly right the possibilities are endless.
I guess with practice and observation everyone realizes what is the best for them. A knowledgeble coach/training parthner doesn't hurt as well.
As far as old school, I think in many ways it's an ideal way to prepare for combat. Isolating biceps curls is not the same as lifting tires, but that is my oppinion. 8)>
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