bodyweight,weights and speed
Original Poster: Elitexboxer
Forum: Bodyweight Exercises
Posted On: 23-05-2006, 22:23
Orginal Post: Elitexboxer: recently I bought matt furey's Combat Conditioning book and he claims that weights are useless and only slow you down,but mas oyama's classic karate book says to do 20 minutes weghts for ever 2 hours of karate and that strained muscles are slow but only if you do too much.After that I noticed that some of his karate fighter are absolutely ripped in comparison with matt furey who says you can't get ripped with his exercises. So I just want to ask if its possible to get some muscle defenition and size while keeping your speed and power (I don't want to be huge,just a little defenition!)
Post: samurai6string:
The muscle-bound myth is just that: a myth. It takes an incredible amount of mass to decrease flexibility and by extension, speed. Charles Atlas did alot do disprove this theory, do a Google search and look at him and his *huge* friends bending over backwards and forming human pyramids. You will be doing yourself a dis-service if you skip strength training for fear of losing agility.>
Post: samurai6string:
My bad, it wasn't Atlas, it was Jack La Lanne. Check it out:
>
Post: Elitexboxer:
[quote=samurai6string My bad, it wasn't Atlas, it was Jack La Lanne. Check it out:
are you saying I can be huge and fast/flexible?>
Post: samurai6string:
pretty much. having thick muscle fiber doesn't necessarily prevent it from being able to stretch. however stretching is important in any activity, and that includes before and after lifting.>
Post: Elitexboxer:
[quote=samurai6string pretty much. having thick muscle fiber doesn't necessarily prevent it from being able to stretch. however stretching is important in any activity, and that includes before and after lifting.[/quote
how come fighter don't look like bodybuilders? is it a fat thing?>
Post: dscott:
[quote=samurai6string pretty much. having thick muscle fiber doesn't necessarily prevent it from being able to stretch. however stretching is important in any activity, and that includes before and after lifting.[/quote
I don't think that having a lot of muscle mass (ie. bodybuilders) prevent flexibility so much as it would prevent you from being quick. I'm looking at this purely from a fighting point of view.>
Post: zefff:
Elite,
If you are primarily concerned with fighting you will spend most of the time you have developing fighting skill along with the attributes a fighter needs rather than focusing on size, definition, strength and body fat and water content.
Strength is only one attribute and size is a side-effect of strength training (I know, I know). You will really only want extra weight if you feel you need to bully people or haul equipment etc (ring fight - max out your weight class, bouncing/door work, law enforcement or battlefield soldier, contact sports etc). The downside is you need to sustain the body you create. You can be big, powerful and fast but you need to balance your training between the attributes so that you dont just become big and strong which is different to big and powerful.
If you want more power to propel your fight skill then research training methods that mimick the explosive and total unified muscle movements of actual fighting.>
Post: samurai6string:
Zeff makes a good point. Your approach is going to be different if you are lifting for specific strength than if you are lifting to build mass. My point was that balancing your current routine with lifting, you shouldn't be afriad of getting so big that you won't be quick. As for your comment about fighters, well, look at some of the MMAists out there. Plenty of them are ripped and very quick. strength and speed are not mutually exclusive. There is nothing that says you can't be both.>
Post: Elitexboxer:
[quote=samurai6string Zeff makes a good point. Your approach is going to be different if you are lifting for specific strength than if you are lifting to build mass. My point was that balancing your current routine with lifting, you shouldn't be afriad of getting so big that you won't be quick. As for your comment about fighters, well, look at some of the MMAists out there. Plenty of them are ripped and very quick. strength and speed are not mutually exclusive. There is nothing that says you can't be both.[/quote
is it possible to build strength with weights but not size?>
Post: angryrocker4:
YES!!! It's the great sport of powerlifting. You will often see a 140lb runt benching upwards to 300lbs (most I've seen, on a vid). Which is a huge power to body weight ratio. You also develop tremendous explosiveness and overall power. Size takes intentional effort to build, so if you get at a point you like, maintain your diet. Strength and power are different. Strength equals lifting a load of weight. Power is FORCE output.
Strength doesnt always translate to moving another human around (fighting), but if you have physical power, its quite easy to adapt. Example, if I rely on strength when goin for a double leg takedown, its easy to defend against with a sprawl or the oppenent has a chance to do any thing he knows to turn that against me. But with power, you have a sheer mass of force, energy, instead of muscle, moving into someone and it's harder to defend. Hard to explain really.
There's also a difference in quickness and speed. Speed is a physical attribute you either have or dont (for the most part), but quickness (in my awkward explanation of it) is being where you want when you want. You dont have to be fast to dodge a punch. You just have to not be where the fist is coming, or block/redirect it where it wont hit you, before it does.
Muscles do not limit speed or quickness, what do you think moves you? Its actually a difference between the types of muscle fibers are dominant in you.>
Post: Elitexboxer:
[quote=angryrocker4 YES!!! It's the great sport of powerlifting. You will often see a 140lb runt benching upwards to 300lbs (most I've seen, on a vid). Which is a huge power to body weight ratio. You also develop tremendous explosiveness and overall power. Size takes intentional effort to build, so if you get at a point you like, maintain your diet. Strength and power are different. Strength equals lifting a load of weight. Power is FORCE output.
Strength doesnt always translate to moving another human around (fighting), but if you have physical power, its quite easy to adapt. Example, if I rely on strength when goin for a double leg takedown, its easy to defend against with a sprawl or the oppenent has a chance to do any thing he knows to turn that against me. But with power, you have a sheer mass of force, energy, instead of muscle, moving into someone and it's harder to defend. Hard to explain really.
There's also a difference in quickness and speed. Speed is a physical attribute you either have or dont (for the most part), but quickness (in my awkward explanation of it) is being where you want when you want. You dont have to be fast to dodge a punch. You just have to not be where the fist is coming, or block/redirect it where it wont hit you, before it does.
Muscles do not limit speed or quickness, what do you think moves you? Its actually a difference between the types of muscle fibers are dominant in you.[/quote
I'm on the Haas peak ferformance diet (It's mostly complex carbs and 4 ounces of meat a day).
so if I stay on a non-bodybuilder diet I won't get big?>
Post: angryrocker4:
There's no real bodybuilder diet. If so, what you're on could be cosidered as such. Basically eat high protein and complex carbs like you are doing, and keep it healthy. BUT, you do not need 1 1/2-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, like the magazines say, UNLESS you are on steroids. My general rule is .5grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, about 120grams a day for me.
You have to intentionally train for size. Even then, you may be extremely limited by your genetics. Do research on powerlifting, so you can learn the theory and fundamentals of it and why it works. Basically, high weight and low reps, I keep between 4-8 reps and anywhere from 2-4 sets. the main thing is to explode from the bottom of the movement, while keeping good form.
Try these on google, West Side powerlifting, Metal Militia.>
Post: Elitexboxer:
[quote=angryrocker4 There's no real bodybuilder diet. If so, what you're on could be cosidered as such. Basically eat high protein and complex carbs like you are doing, and keep it healthy. BUT, you do not need 1 1/2-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, like the magazines say, UNLESS you are on steroids. My general rule is .5grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, about 120grams a day for me.
You have to intentionally train for size. Even then, you may be extremely limited by your genetics. Do research on powerlifting, so you can learn the theory and fundamentals of it and why it works. Basically, high weight and low reps, I keep between 4-8 reps and anywhere from 2-4 sets. the main thing is to explode from the bottom of the movement, while keeping good form.
Try these on google, West Side powerlifting, Metal Militia.[/quote
well thanks,I'll definetly start doing weights in addition to bodyweight exercises.>
| < Prev | Next > |
|---|