Bad diet or good diet??
Original Poster: baraca
Forum: Weight Loss
Posted On: 02-06-2006, 08:24
Orginal Post: baraca: I have been led to believe for the last ten years or so that i have a very bad diet. Basically i dont eat meat, the only meat i consume is meatballs which are balls of pork, and mince meat, and i don't have these very often which makes me think im not the best for protein.
Food that i do eat is mostly white bread infact nearly all white bread..Alot of toast i mean loaf or more a day, alot of bread rolls 3 or 4 a day.
I also eat alot of cereals, i.e. special k and corn flakes.
The rest of my food intake is usually crisps and chocolate but not alot.
I'm fairly skinny but my muscles are big enough especially around my shoulders and arms and legs. Which makes me think i could build them up alot more, i have been wanting to get alot fitter and workout alot lately but i just wanted some info on my diet.
Is it really that bad? And if so what should i change? Please consider that the only meat i have eaten for the last ten years (reason unknown) is what was outlined above so starting to eat other meat could be a bit of a problem. I don't eat vegetables at all..At all. Nor do i eat fish. Basically i do not eat anything which comes from a chipper.
Any advice would be a great help.
/paul
Post: angryrocker4:
Yeah, that's a horrible diet. Basically the base guidelines for a healthy diet is to stay away from processed/over processed food, any type of corn syrup, and fried crap(but tasty). For meat, switch to steak, turkey and chicken. You can have healthy hamburgers cooked on a foreman grill. Meatballs are ok once in a bit, but you could change the type from pork, though thats not a huge issue. Vegetables are great to help stay filled up, basically when your counting cals and watching your diet, they're "free food". As for bread, anything is great as long as it's whole grain, sara lee is an awesome brand. Switch the cereal to oats/oatmeal, once in a bit is ok. You can take plain oats and flavor them however you like, which is awesome.
If you cant eat the meat above, get some type of protein shake. Your body needs protein and these vegan and vegetarian diets will "kill" you and in my opinion, unhealthy.
Also, do not fall for this low-carb crap, its the 'cleanliness' of what you eat and not specific things in there. Itd help alot if I knew more of a detailed goal you have, otherwise eat whatever you want. Specific eating patterns should be reserved for certain lifestyles (ie powerlifting, bodybuilding, mma competition, etc).>
Post: baraca:
Thanks for that.
Any more info on the protein shakes? If i could get them on the internet it would be a big help as i am living in ireland.
The only goal i have is to build myself up a bit and get fitter. I don't plan on entering any competitons or anything. I'm joining a new gym now in a months time or so, and that got me thinking about my diet and if it would affect any training i do in the gym.>
Post: dscott:
How old are you? Maybe if you're young, that's why you seem like you're in shape. I highly doubt, with a diet like that, that you are in healthy and in shape. You might be fooling yourself.
White bread and rolls, though tasty, is much worse for you then wheat & whole grain. You have to start eating fruits and vegetables. You can live without the meat if you find protein elsewhere. Beans are a good source of protein. You can find protein shakes almost any supermarket now a days. Is there a GNC or even a gym near you?>
Post: angryrocker4:
Try www.bodybuilding.com
Live without meat?! BLASPHEMY! All I'm gonna say is theres a reason your body craves meat. Body needs animal protein. 8O
Stay away from GNC, they're a ripoff and do not know anything about what they sell (for the most part). But if you are goin to focus on fitness, figure out what you really want, study everything for yourself. Cause the more you understand, the better your success. But dont waste your money on the gym if your not going to change your diet to make it worthwhile. You dont need it perfect like a bodybuilder, but it really does need improvement. Anything else, let me know.>
Post: dscott:
Quote: Live without meat?! BLASPHEMY! All I'm gonna say is theres a reason your body craves meat. Body needs animal protein.
I can't live without meat.....I just meant it's possible :D
Quote: Stay away from GNC, they're a ripoff and do not know anything about what they sell (for the most part).
I just gave GNC as an example because they are the most well known>
Post: zefff:
There is no health risk from suddenly altering your diet to a healthy one!
Pork meatballs? If they are out of a tin its bound to be some mechanically reclaimed crap. Thats pork eyelids, snouts and scrotums - hardly choice cuts of lean meat!
Balance is the key mate. Fresh fruit and veg. Find what you like and eat those instead of breads all the time. I eat things like pears, bananna, orange, kiwi everyday as snacks then have veg with my evening meal which is usually rice or pasta with meat or fish. My usual meats are Roast/Stir fry/Curry Chicken, Lamb, Tuna, Snapper, Salmon, Sardines, Pilchards. I eat a lot more fish but this is the regular stuff.
Like AR4 said, stay away from processed food as much as you can. It doesnt matter what type of body you have or what your goals are - they are bad. If you are stuck for food and have to go to Maccy D's etc try and go for a Chicken Premiere, something which hasnt been reformed like the burgers but preferably dont go at all. Oh yeah and drink milk too but not full fat. Semi or full skimmed only. Milk is a great food! Think about vits and mins too if you can. Eggs is another source of protein but watch the yolks (fat).>
Post: angryrocker4:
Actually the yolks are a great source of healthy fat. Just not 6 eggs at a time.>
Post: zefff:
thats why I said, watch the yolks :P
....oh and the little yucky eye things! :lol:
edit: I just thought of the one risk of a sudden switch to healthy diet. Its the bashing his ring piece will take from the regular usage. When you eat well, expect big jobs! None of that runny stuff or them crappy little pebbles once every 3 days! :lol:>
Post: samurai6string:
Ring Piece!! that's priceless! you Brits crack me up. :lol:
To restate what everyone else has said, anything that says "enriched flour" means that it is crap and you should run away. Be careful because alot of wheat bread is made from enriched flour as well. Your body turns that stuff into pure sugar. Your blood sugar could be waaay out of whack from eating all of that white bread.
As for meat, I'm a vegitarian myself. I don't know how hard it is to find tofu over there, but get into soy products and tofu if at all possible. It tastes good, comes in a variety of forms, and is chock full of good protein. If you aren't trying to avoid meat, then go for FRESH lean cuts of chicken or beef. Avoid any kind of meat or meat byproduct that sits on a shelf or is "ground.">
Post: Gazelle:
I'm a vegitarian too. I didn't realise tofu and soy were full of protein (does that mean soy milk has more than cows milk? I heard that it had a lot more calcium in it). But then again, you can't get them out here too easily, so i've never realy bothered to look to see what's in them!
Nuts are also good for protein, but go easy on them, as they have a lot of calories in them. If you don't eat fish, i believe a good way of getting your omega three oils, iron and vitamins is by eating a lot of greens (fresh spinach, without being cooked is really nice! But, obviously that's down to taste.), the darker the better. Walnuts have omega three in to, as well as flax seed oil, apricot kernels, and quite a few other things! The reason i mention them, is basically because no one has yet, not because that is the only thing i am absolutely obsessed with getting into my diet!
If you want a specific kind of pulse to look out for, i believe mung beans are one of the best, they have every kind of protein in them.
I heard that pasta actually blocks your bowels up, and bread isn't too good for that either. Oats are good, got a few vitamins and minerals in them too, like already mentioned, and rice isn't bad, brown rice better, and i don't think it tastes any worse.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Watch out for all that soy protein.........>
Post: samurai6string:
Gaz> I live in a fairly backwards place here in the States, but I can go to my local Wal-Mart and get 4 different brands of soy milk in 3 different flavors, as well as Boca, Morning Star, Not Dogs, and a couple other brands of tofu/soy products. A Boca burger patty has the same amount of protein as a beef patty with 70% less fat, I believe.
Angry> are you refering to that study that suggested that soy can accelerate cancer rates in certain predisposed individuals?>
Post: Gazelle:
We can get a few Quorn bits, but i tend to not bother with them.
I don't think i ever heard about that study. Lately, i've been starting to think that they are going to find something of the sort in every food they come across! I heard something about a poison called Solonoid (not sure of spelling) in potatoes a while back. I think, if i remember rightly, you'd need about 10kg of potatoes for it to get a lethal dose, including the skin, less, if its been in the sun. They go green due to the production of chlorophyll, which is induced by sunlight, so, the chloropyhll shows that it has been in sunlight, and so had more poison in it. The skin contains, apparently about 90% of the poison, so, if our eating a lot of potatoes, it might be an idea to peel them!>
Post: angryrocker4:
Umm sure.....and also the fact that it makes your poo stink really bad, harder to process, and is less efficiently utilized in your body. It's also kinda girly.... :twisted:>
Post: angryrocker4:
Tofu/soy, is pretty useless (I think) as there's better and cheaper food that your body typically "prefers" over that stuff. That stuff falls under processed, and I've never heard any PT or nutritionist or any fitness athlete recommend eating that stuff. But its alot better than 18 loaves of enriched super crap-fluff white bread a day.>
Post: baraca:
Yeah i'm young i'm only 17. But i seen it as a good time to cop on and get myself into shape.
Well ive tried to put together a list of stuff that i can and do eat..
Brown bread, white bread, beans, meatballs, mince, cereal (wholegrain, oats anything i don't mind!) pasta, yoghurts, crackerbread, apples, pears, oranges, bananas any fruit like that really..
Anybody want to give me some tips as to how much of what i've mentioned to eat and what there is bad cause you seem to know what you are all talking about..??
Thanks very much for all the replies, they've been very helpful so far.>
Post: angryrocker4:
For portions, steak and chicken are already good, but typically 4 oz of meat per meal is good. The general rule is amount of food=size of your palm. Frequency and what type of diet you hit really depend on your goals. Which you really now need to get on www.bodybuilding.com and other nutritional sites (search google) to learn for yourself so that you can put your own thing together according to your tastes. You're more likely to get the results you want and stay with it if you know what your doing and can fit your diet to your tastes, which only you know.>
Post: Arjun:
[quote=angryrocker4 Tofu/soy, is pretty useless (I think) as there's better and cheaper food that your body typically "prefers" over that stuff. That stuff falls under processed, and I've never heard any PT or nutritionist or any fitness athlete recommend eating that stuff. But its alot better than 18 loaves of enriched super crap-fluff white bread a day.[/quote
Where do you get your information from, and why, being so completely misinformed, do you insist on trying to make dietary recommendations to other people?
There is nothing unhealthy in a vegetarian diet. In fact many studies, including a massive, forty year study of the differences of eating habits between Americans and Chinese, have shown that animal based foods (meat and dairy) increase your risk of many different cancers as well as heart disease. Furthermore, behind automobile pollution the largest contributer to air pollution and the highest waterway and ground polluter is the meat and dairy industry. Any decrease in animal-based food consumption is going to have a positive impact on the environment. And if you don't care about your health or the environment, maybe you care that it takes something like twelve pounds of grain and 2,500 gallons of water to make each pound of beef that you eat, and if this grain was instead used to feed humans we would have more than enough to save the 6 million people that die each year from starvation.
Whatever your reason for staying away from animal products, it is easy to do so and remain healthy. However, you are not going to accomplish this by eating only grains. You need to start eating fruits an vegetables. It is understandable that you may not wish to do this, given how long you have been maintaining your current eating habits, but if you desire to be healthy and grow muscle you need to start. Try eating vegetables along with dinner rolls or other breads that you like. Try different things, experiment until you find something that works for you.
To gain muscle you need to consume protein. The standard recommendation for adults is approximately 55-60 grams per day, though bodybuilders will say that you should eat one gram for every two pounds of body weight you cary. Of this the FDA recommends that 25 grams per day come from soy products (the American Heart Association recommends that 50 grams come from soy). These suggestions come from a large body of research that has been conducted over the last twenty or thirty years showing that soy protein has many health benefits. This has also lead to the widespread proliferation of soy products in most grocery stores.
If you cannot develop a taste for soy or other vegetables and if you do not want to increase your consumption of animal products you might find your best off slamming the protein shakes or protein bars, though you will still likely be deficient in other nutrients and vitamins due to the lack of variety in your diet.>
Post: Hengest:
Good to see you back Arjun. :D>
Post: Arjun:
Heyo Hengest. It is nice to see you again too. I missed you guys.
This is the first time in more than a year that I am not busy with school and haven't decided to travel for the summer. It is nice to be able to just hang out and read the forum and get through the stack of 12 books I have been accumulating.>
Post: JH:
For more info on soy, check out this article: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=302poison2>
Post: Arjun:
Or, instead of reading obviously biased material from reporters you could read the data that comes from scientific research and government organizations.
Personally, I don't trust any information or "study" that isn't in a formal scientific format and is either backed by a government organization (like say the FDA or the American Heart Association) or published in a scholarly, peer reviewed journal.
For example:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/49/5/725
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00980.html
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/CIRCULATIONAHA.106.171052v1?etoc
I acknowledge that there is some controversy surrounding certain aspects of soy, however it seems that most of people's information is incorrect and is coming from an ad campaign funded by the meat and dairy industries and perpetuated through the press with no real scientific base. For a more accurate, scientific view on the controversy and the limitations of the soya plant it might be helpful to read this article:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html>
Post: angryrocker4:
I get my info from the basic areas. 1) I read, study, and learn. 2) common sense 3) I dont take studies as "proof" as they are not and are heavily biased, how about you look into who did and paid for those studies you refer to. How about the people who sit on the FDA? Who are they connected to? 4) I live the lifestyle and am successful at meeting my goals and helping others.
Think. Your body craves certain types of food for a reason. It's simply because you need those nutrients. Vegetarianism is unhealthy, simply, because the human body was not meant to eat just one type of food. Look at your teeth, they're designed to eat all kinds of things, not just meat or veggies only. Now if you would apply common sense and actually read many of the posts I make in the health issues, you would see that I recommend a balanced clean diet. For those gaining strength or size, I reccomend more protein, naturally. And this 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight thing is only if you're on roids. Your body will not otherwise absorb and use the excess protein efficiently.
Guess what, those who eat only meat are unhealthy and those who eat only veggies are unhealthy. In case you miss the point, it's because they are missing a good portion of a balanced diet.
Check out those studies with cancer again, what does it say about lifestyle, genetics, work environment, etc. Simply put, we americans have more things that we are exposed to that contribute to cancer risks, not to mention many do not exercise regularly thus contributing to the same conditions you listed. Compare us against any country, and our risks are higher because we live for convenience. Example, Londoners walk more.
I say soy protein is bad, because it falls under processed. Unless you're eating the beans straight, you have to process it and companies are going to use unhealthy things to do so, cause it saves them money. All I say, is that it should not be a major protein source.
The meat and dairy industry are neglible on the environment issue. What about the US storing nuclear waste incorrectly? Or the rising mercury levels in tuna? That issue comes down to people being asses, not eating meat or drinking milk. Now if the regs were followed, there would be little if any problem.
Same goes for starvation. It's choices people make and end up with those consequences. Help the people out, sure, but no need to blame it on the meat industry. Are you aware of the amount of grain the US wastes a year, simply because we produce too much and would rather it rot away than ship it out to those that need it?
It's easy to spout off studies to show as "proof". There's a study to prove any point of view. You could find a study that says soy cause cancer and another that says it fights it.
Just because you don't agree with another's view and experience/knowledge doesn't make it wrong. So why do you insist, while being grossly negligent of how the world works, that what you say has any more value or factual basis? Prove to me that a diet missing a key part, meat and dairy, is healthy. Without citing studies that may or may not have been financially influenced. I prefer biology. Your body craves what it needs. Just because you can survive, doesn't make it healthy. There are people that've smoked all their lives living to be 90+, and eating crap for diet. Yeah, they've lived long, but that doesn't mean they're healthy. I'd rather be a healthy 70 and die than be 90+ stuck in a chair defecating on myself.
I also noticed that you did not encourage the fellow to go learn for himself. Is that because you take what you say as infallible fact without chance of one day being wrong? I don't. I may be wrong, but only time will tell. As of now, I am confident in my knowledge. Remember, people used to "know" the world was flat.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Also, notice how I made clear my posts were opinion and not presented as fact. Unlike yours, which is, I believe, bad practice.>
Post: Arjun:
I like this. I don't have to argue with you, because you haven't negated any of the points I made. It saves me time and energy. Instead of providing information, studies, scientific knowledge, etc that supports your point of view you have instead just said that this is all common sense, that your argument is based on biology (meaning that what you crave to eat is the most healthy for you, right?) and told me that I am stupid and am clearly "missing the point".
Thank you, it is late and I am glad you have made my job easier. When you do find some solid argument to present, with data and sources and etc, please let me know and I will return.>
Post: angryrocker4:
The same is easily said of you. You chose to argue with me, therefore burden of proof rests on you. And once again you are missing the point, and have not shown anything. I have not to show anything, as I have made sure my posts were opinions and experiences and not fact, you have shown neither nor offered proof yourself.
What I said, was, human development has made your body desire essential nutrients. Just because you're in the mood for a cheeseburger doesnt make it healthy. I see you are adept at the art of internet BS. Nice cop out by the way, you must be ninja, study under ashida kim?
And I didn't say you were stupid, you implied that of me. See, another reason I recommend people learn for themselves, is so I dont have to go and find all this crap again and repost it. Pick up a biology book. Pick up a book on evolution. Pick up a book on nutrition. There you go. Easy place to start, now read. Left to right, top to bottom. I take it you're probably goin to use the secret internet BS art to try and further insult me, but I assure you, I laugh at your impotence.>
Post: Arjun:
[quote=angryrocker4 Pick up a book on nutrition. There you go. Easy place to start, now read. Left to right, top to bottom. [/quote
Thanks, I don't know how I got accepted into University of California at Berkeley as a Biology and Human Anatomy major without this help!
I don't have to BS, there is enough of that in the information (or lack thereof) that you have provided. But maybe I shouldn't be so harsh. I only wanted to point out that when people discuss a subject area so vital and central to human health and life as nutrition and diet, they should come at least somewhat equipped with reliable sources of information to back the claims and advice they dispense.
Anecdotal experience, or what you call "common sense" is not an accurate basis of knowledge. This is why you will find no classes or areas of studies on it at any university or medical center. Therefore, all we have to rely on for accurate scientific information in this world is the very dependable and thoroughly rigorous system of discovery and peer review found in the scientific community. All the data that was gathered that you will find in those books on biology, evolution and nutrition that you recommended I read was discovered and compiled through this process.
So don't take it personally - I am not insulting you, but rather the information you have presented. It isn't that I dislike you, instead I care about the health and well-being of others and would like them to have the most accurate and helpful information possible. It is a battle against misinformation. Instead of remaining here trying to argue with me you should read the links I have posted or do your own research, I am sure your local library has scientific and medical journals you can check out.
Goodnight.>
Post: angryrocker4:
So, what you are saying is a balanced clean diet is unhealthy? Cause that's what I'm recommending.
School and university means nothing. Someone before you found out the info and put it in a book. What that means, is someone reads the book, whether or not they have found out for themselves the reliability of the info, and take it as fact. 95% of the time, it is fact, but still, no one tests it for themselves to confirm. I dont care what degree anybody has, they can still be a dumbass. So, I learn for myself. I do not respect anyone that does not actively learn things themselves, writing a report and doing homework do not count. That's called going through the motions.
So if I said smoking was unhealthy, I'd have to pull up studies showing this to prove it? The idea that you're inhaling smoke doesnt do that itself? Common sense is the first and foremost thing that one should use, this is why we have developed it. That's the problem these days, no one uses it. Now if I said that smoking would make you taller, then I'd agree on evidence to back it up. Nothing I have said is wrong. Now it may not fit with certain goals people have, but it's not wrong.>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=Arjun Anecdotal experience, or what you call "common sense" is not an accurate basis of knowledge. This is why you will find no classes or areas of studies on it at any university or medical center. Therefore, all we have to rely on for accurate scientific information in this world is the very dependable and thoroughly rigorous system of discovery and peer review found in the scientific community. All the data that was gathered that you will find in those books on biology, evolution and nutrition that you recommended I read was discovered and compiled through this process.[/quote
Firstly, scientific studies, though the conclusions may rise to be considered fact, they are not neccesarily true. What is drawn from the evidence is greatly biased by the study itself, and the intepreter. Two people could see different things from the same results. Often results lead to many possibilities. Also, you might have noticed, the scientific veiwpoint on matters varies greatly over time.
Secondly, angry, your point about the evolution of our body is very valid, but is it not possible that we can get those nutrients from other sources than what perhaps our bodies have grown accustomed to over the years? Just because our bodies have evolved to eat meat, doesn't mean that it can't get those nutrients found in meat from other sources, nor that our body cannot process them properly from other sources.
And, thank you very much for pointing those environmental issues out to me, i had not heard all of them before. And, for me, that is good enough reason not to eat it alone, without everything else. Angry, you are right that it is not the 'meats fault', it is humans that hold the blame, and it drives me insane to see that there is so much we can do, and yet, we don't. The individual can rarely do much, but, one should do what they can, and whether it is the 'meats fault' or not, it must be stopped.>
Post: angryrocker4:
What I believe, is that you should get them from where your body wants them from. Not all protein is the same and the source it comes from has a very big effect. But, yes, you could.>
Post: Gazelle:
Angry, you must have posted just as i did!
Common sense? Yes its frequently good to follow that. However in some instances, ones common sense can not be entirely reliable, as people are liable to make mistakes, even in common sense.>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=angryrocker4 What I believe, is that you should get them from where your body wants them from. Not all protein is the same and the source it comes from has a very big effect. But, yes, you could.[/quote
Yes, i realise that there are different kinds of protein, but i have read somewhere (reliable or not, i don't know) that you can get all the protein you require without eating meat or fish.>
Post: JH:
[quote=Gazelle [quote=angryrocker4 What I believe, is that you should get them from where your body wants them from. Not all protein is the same and the source it comes from has a very big effect. But, yes, you could.[/quote
Yes, i realise that there are different kinds of protein, but i have read somewhere (reliable or not, i don't know) that you can get all the protein you require without eating meat or fish.[/quote
And you can drive a car with your legs, but that doesn't make it a good idea.>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=JH [quote=Gazelle [quote=angryrocker4 What I believe, is that you should get them from where your body wants them from. Not all protein is the same and the source it comes from has a very big effect. But, yes, you could.[/quote
Yes, i realise that there are different kinds of protein, but i have read somewhere (reliable or not, i don't know) that you can get all the protein you require without eating meat or fish.[/quote
And you can drive a car with your legs, but that doesn't make it a good idea.[/quote
I never said it was a good idea, i just said that i read somewhere, reliable or not, that you could get all you need without eating meat or fish. If you can get all you need, and there are no adverse affects (i'm not saying whether there is or not, becasue, quite frankly i don't know), then i can't see how it would be a bad idea.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Well, honestly, I think animal protein is essential. Yes you can get by without it, but unless you have some type of belief system against eating animals, you should get meat in your diet.
Gaz, thats why I said common sense is the first thing to use. You should follow up on it just in case it's wrong.>
Post: Arjun:
[quote=angryrocker4
So if I said smoking was unhealthy, I'd have to pull up studies showing this to prove it? The idea that you're inhaling smoke doesnt do that itself? Common sense is the first and foremost thing that one should use, this is why we have developed it. That's the problem these days, no one uses it. Now if I said that smoking would make you taller, then I'd agree on evidence to back it up. Nothing I have said is wrong. Now it may not fit with certain goals people have, but it's not wrong.[/quote
Actually, back in the day people, including most of the population and even doctors, believed that smoking was good for you, that there were no negative effects and it worked to calm the nerves. It wasn't until scientific study of the subject turned up links with cancer and lung disease.
[quote=gazelle Firstly, scientific studies, though the conclusions may rise to be considered fact, they are not neccesarily true. What is drawn from the evidence is greatly biased by the study itself, and the intepreter. [/quote
I completely agree with you, Gazelle. I think one must be critical and open minded and get their information from varying sources and decide what they believe is the most factual and fits best with what they have experienced.
What is the alternative to using science? Common sense is defined as good understanding of practical matters, but those matters are only "practical" because science has made them common knowledge (see above point on cigarette smoke). Should we instead listen to Angryrocket as an expert in the field? Is his anecdotal experiences more reliable than thoroughly tested and reviewed experiments?
Maybe he is more qualified. How much formal training in the area have you had, Angryrocket? You may think that schools and universities don't matter, but the rest of the world values them. I sure wouldn't want a doctor operating on my without any medical training and using only common sense. Where did you get your undergrad degree? Masters? PhD? How many post-doctoral research programs have you undertaken? How many papers have you gotten published in well established scientific journals? How many peer reviews have you taken part in? How many grants have you been awarded? How many government organizations back the conclusions you have made in your research? How many years experience do you have working in the field? How about teaching the subject matter? How many awards have you received?
My point is that you have no experience or credentials whatsoever to back up your claim. You say it is common sense, yet common sense is derived from science anyhow. You say that you read and learn yourself, yet you claim that studying, reading and researching papers in college is useless. Maybe you experiment with things and learn from that, but suprise! thats what scientists do! Except with scientists they do so on a much larger scale with better control of the variables that influence the study and they submit it for their peers (other scientists) to review for errors and test themselves over and over to refine it. You say that your recommending a "balanced, clean diet", but to who's standards? Let me reiterate what I said in my very first post: where the hell do you get your information from?>
Post: angryrocker4:
So what are your credentials? Experiences? How have you taken your supposed superior knowledge and applied it to yourself and others? Degrees mean nothing, writing papers mean nothing. How much are your big 3 lifts? What is your 2 mile run time? Can you jump out of a plane with 200 lbs of gear, march 25 miles, and enter combat and be effective? You're in Berkely and that means something? Guess what, your little studies and research you cite are proven and disproven every day. The only expert is the one that admits he knows nothing for certain. Think about that.
So because I havent listed my creds, I have none? Are you really that ignorant? I weep for humanity if this thought process you follow is in the majority.
If this isn't common sense to you, then your paying for a BS education as they are evidently not helping you any. Inhaling smoke doesn't come across as a bad idea, especially when most people get sick the first few times they do it? Your body rejecting it isnt a clear sign? Well that proves my point that your little degrees and such you boast so highly dont mean a thing. Those doctors were the experts of the time and they were wrong, so why are you so sure about people today? Five years from now, there may be a complete reversal in thinking about nutrition due to some new find.
Repeatedly i have stated these as my opinions based on what I have learned and my experiences training and training others. You are the one claiming me to be an expert. Once agan with your internet BS crap. How about you get a dictionary, look up the definitions of the words I use, and then think about it. You are placing meaning where there is none. Maybe take some english while you're in school.
You act like paying $80,000 and getting a piece of paper means something. Like its the ultimate accomplishment. Guess what, everyone has a few, they no longer hold value. And do not personally attack me unless you are going to pay for my first class plane ticket. You obviously cant discuss anything without attacking someone, which takes away your credibility. If you really understood the subject and wanted to prove your point, you wouldnt have to attack anyone now would you? So how does attacking what I say make your point? It doesn't. If you were right, then why not let your words be said and leave it at that? I'm done now. I laugh at your impotence once more.>
Post: Arjun:
The point I am trying to make is that the things you say, indeed the things I say, should not be taken as valid points unless they are backed by some evidence, and I believe the most accurate and substantial accurate humans can get is through the scientific process.
Don't be angry man, I am not attacking you, I am arguing with your statements. I don't have anything against you, in fact I like and respect a lot of what you said in other forum threads.
In fact I don't even necessarily disagree with your viewpoint - I have done a lot of research in the area and I have participated in protein delivery programs to sub-saharan africa and east asia and I have found evidence for both sides of the argument (meat/dairy vs. plant-based diets).>
Post: Gazelle:
[quote=Arjun The point I am trying to make is that the things you say, indeed the things I say, should not be taken as valid points unless they are backed by some evidence, and I believe the most accurate and substantial accurate humans can get is through the scientific process.
Don't be angry man, I am not attacking you, I am arguing with your statements. I don't have anything against you, in fact I like and respect a lot of what you said in other forum threads.
In fact I don't even necessarily disagree with your viewpoint - I have done a lot of research in the area and I have participated in protein delivery programs to sub-saharan africa and east asia and I have found evidence for both sides of the argument (meat/dairy vs. plant-based diets).[/quote
Arjun, you did get pretty hostile from at least from this meagre readers perspective.
The funny thing is, if you actually listen to each other properly instead of winding each other up, you are not saying dissimilar things. Though, i think Arjun, from what you have said, you do hold a lot of value on scientific studies, and what not, which i'm not saying you shouldn't. You both think evidence in some sort or other is required. Yes? For angry it's evolution and common sense, for Arjun, your going off some recent studies. Look at them. Arjun, if you showed angry where to look, i'm sure he would look at it, and make a decision for himself based upon what is presented, which, i think, is a very good way to go about it. I don't think Arjun's way is much different, he just takes a lot of pride in what he knows, not always a great thing, but not neccesarily a bad thing either. Arjun, i will say one thing, you seem to state things as fact from scientifc studies, and what comes accross is that it is not just in single cases, but it sounds as if you are taking scietific studies generally as fact, then you go and say that one has to be careful about what one takes from such studies. That may have been a missinterpretation, but if not, it does present a slight contradiction. However if you are intent upon the latter, that is another similarity in what you are saying, and is it not the evidence and the interpretation of data that you are arguing about in some form or other? I hope i've explained that clearly enough, and that i haven't offended anyone.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Then why are we arguin if we're sayin the same thing? :lol:
Edit: Should say, nearly the same.>
Post: angryrocker4:
Also on a side note, maybe you were thinking of common knowledge (well known principles) instead of common sense? I think of common sense as one's natural intuition.>
Post: Arjun:
Ah, yes in my mind common sense & common knowledge are synonymous and intuition is something completely different.
Gazelle - I am not saying scientific studies are faultless, I am just saying they are usually some of the most accurate sources of information and, while one should be thorough and look at many different viewpoints, scientific research (in this field) is the best evidence we have. Furthermore I am saying that most of the information we currently have is derived from empirical study, and what is common and understood to us is only so because others have done the research to make it common.
Angry - We argue because it allows us to better formulate our own views and in the end after the conflict has receded, if we are wise, we have a chance to look over each others philosophy and further our knowledge and refine our own understanding of the subject and the arguments against our beliefs.
Plus arguing is the best way to make friends :)>
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